Black Knight inaccuracies

Fuseball

New member
May 26, 2012
484
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These are compared to a factory produced Black Knight, one of which I own.

1. The "wall" at the front of the upper playfield is far too high and obstructs the player's view of the upper-left flipper. The wall should be only a little higher than the flipper (thickness of the plastic). The view of the balls released from the lock is also almost completely obscured by this wall, which makes dealing with multiball start needlessly awkward.

2. The colours of the multiplier and left drop target bank inserts are incorrect. The TPA version appears to be based on the colouring of a run of recent reproduction playfields, which coloured those inserts deep blue. The original game used dark mauve/blue for the arrows to the left drop target banks and a faceted watery pink for the multipliers and flashing inserts in front of each drop target bank.

3. The lower playfield kickout saucer should make it's sound on release, not entry.

4. Missing Sounds...

Ball lock
Ball release for multiball (*very* important that one and I seem to recall PHOF had it working)
Pop bumper
Inlane rollover after magnasave (different to regular inlane rollover sound)
Spinner when lit (completely different to unlit sound)

The sound prioritising is a bit off too. Any target activated sound should take priority over a background sound, and that includes taking precedence over the timed drop target sound, which in turn takes priority over the general background sound. :)

5. Bonus sound isn't tied to the actual bonus countdown. Could this be done a bit better? Gorgar at least made the effort.

6. Audio and lights buildup to multiball completely missing.

7. GI relay flashing also missing.

I appreciate that Black Knight isn't emulated as yet, so there may be good sound reasons for points 3-7 being the way they are (although I think it absolutely needs some of the more straightforward sounds added - ball lock and multiball release particularly).

Feel free to PM me if you need a beta tester, particularly for some of these older games. :)
 
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HOW

New member
Feb 21, 2012
537
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I wondered about the bright Blue inserts.
Good for FS to have feedback from those with intimate knowledge of the tables concerned :)

PS. Are you Fuseball from VPF? if so...we seem to be being invaded, Uncle Wilky, Groni....
All good :)
 

mmmagnetic

New member
May 29, 2012
601
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Yeah, even with my limited time I noticed a lot of these bugs (though I'm only used to the PHOF version), it seems to be the most buggy table released so far...

Thankfully Creature seems flawless!
 

Fuseball

New member
May 26, 2012
484
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PS. Are you Fuseball from VPF? if so...we seem to be being invaded, Uncle Wilky, Groni....
All good :)
Yes! I've not really been active on VPF for a long time although I do still occasionally fire up VP for a quick game. Usually to play that awesome VP9 version of AFM. :)
 

Kolchak357

Senior Pigeon
May 31, 2012
8,102
2
Fuseball really nailed it with numer 1 on his list. That upper wall that obscures the top left flipper is killing this game for me. Too tough to see the ball and the flipper, which makes timing shots with that flipper very difficult. Multiball has surprised me on more than one occasion. The sound and cosmetic errors I can live with for now. But Mr. Gorbachev, take down the wall!
 

Pop Sergeant

New member
Jul 26, 2012
166
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Great (constructive) criticisms, Fuseball! The missing sounds and sound prioritization are what stand out to me as being significant detractors (for me) to really enjoying the game play in the short term. I'd played this table in real-life many-many-many times a very-very-very long time ago ... in a galaxy far-far away ... ;) ... and despite the obvious problems I noticed (wall-wall-wall) ... it didn't click with me what was causing my general sense of "something basic is not quite right" until I read your comment about the missing sounds, misplaced sounds, and sound-bite priorities. That is it exactly. It was what I couldn't see/hear as a problem that was bothering me more than what I could.

Well done and thanks for kicking my brain out of the infinite loop of trying to point at something that wasn't there!

Cheers!
 

HOW

New member
Feb 21, 2012
537
0
Yes! I've not really been active on VPF for a long time although I do still occasionally fire up VP for a quick game. Usually to play that awesome VP9 version of AFM. :)

I've not been on VPF for a while either-My poor laptop can't cope with VP9 (I'm also crap at configuring everything-So TPA's a boon). Nice to see some VP people on here. Do you lot know the issues with lack of true ROM emulation for these SS tables? I know Steve's assisting FS-but I've played loads of great SS tables (Inc. Kristian's BK) in VP8 on an midrange XP laptop circa 2007....?
 

Fuseball

New member
May 26, 2012
484
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As I understand it, FS/Steve is focussing on getting System 11 working, which I suspect is why we are yet to see any System 11 games in TPA yet. When I asked about rom emulation on here a while back it was mentioned that earlier Williams systems (such as those used by Gorgar and Black Knight) will be worked on after that. BK will benefit hugely from rom emulation as the sound/lighting is brilliantly programmed on that game.
 

Richard B

New member
Apr 7, 2012
1,868
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I've not been on VPF for a while either-My poor laptop can't cope with VP9 (I'm also crap at configuring everything-So TPA's a boon).
I had the same problem, but there is a fix. Launch VP, go into preferences, and turn on hardware acceleration. It should make the game play much more smoothly.
 

Fuseball

New member
May 26, 2012
484
0
And another one...

The inlanes should light when Magnasave is activated above that lane. A lit lane scores 10k +5 bonus.
 

Fuseball

New member
May 26, 2012
484
0
Sorry, and another...

When the balls kick out for multiball, the lower playfield saucer should not be kicking out at the same time as the lock.

For a two-ball multiball the sequence is... Ball 1 from lock - pause - Ball 2 from saucer.

For a three-ball multiball the sequence is... Ball 1 from lock - pause - Ball 2 from lock - pause - Ball 3 from saucer (or lock if third ball was locked there).
 

PiN WiZ

Mod & Forum Superstar
Staff member
Feb 22, 2012
4,158
1
As I understand it, FS/Steve is focussing on getting System 11 working, which I suspect is why we are yet to see any System 11 games in TPA yet. When I asked about rom emulation on here a while back it was mentioned that earlier Williams systems (such as those used by Gorgar and Black Knight) will be worked on after that. BK will benefit hugely from rom emulation as the sound/lighting is brilliantly programmed on that game.

Once FarSight has the Williams System 11 emulation running 100%, the older Williams Systems should be working as well.
 

Fuseball

New member
May 26, 2012
484
0
I greatly look forward to that. :)

I've tried to be as constructive as I can, which is why I've separated out bugs from inaccuracies. Everything besides the too-high wall and the mis-coloured inserts should be 100% fixed by rom emulation.

I'm beginning to realise that I know BK a little too well than is strictly healthy. :D
 

jaredmorgs

Moderator
Staff member
May 8, 2012
4,334
3
I greatly look forward to that. :)

I've tried to be as constructive as I can, which is why I've separated out bugs from inaccuracies. Everything besides the too-high wall and the mis-coloured inserts should be 100% fixed by rom emulation.

I'm beginning to realise that I know BK a little too well than is strictly healthy. :D

Great to have you on here Fuseball. I got hooked on a lot of VPT recreations that never made it to Australia (CAPCOM tables like BBB), or were before the time I began to get interested in pinball. Safe Cracker one one of my all-time favourite VPT recreations.

I only hope the Safe Cracker table makes its way to TPA. I would be sooo happy if it did. :D

The work you guys put into creating the tables on VP is truly staggering, so thanks for setting up the fan base for digital pinball.
 

Rudy Yagov

New member
Mar 30, 2012
836
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Here's one I noticed before I even started playing.

They spelled Steve Ritchie's name wrong on the description. They forgot the "t" in Ritchie.
 

sotnwaffle

New member
Apr 13, 2012
18
0
In the Williams Collection, some sounds were different/missing than what I remembered in the arcade. Is this still the case, or has it been changed?
In the arcade: For the left ramp, when the spinner is lit, I remember the sound was the same as for advancing to the next level in Robotron, but that wasn't in the Williams Collection.
In the arcade: If more than one player were playing, the extra time awarded did not have the looping music from the normal game play, but a kind of electronic ticking sound. This was not
present in the Williams Collection.

It's been ages and ages since I played this in an arcade, but I *think* that was my experience.
 

Fuseball

New member
May 26, 2012
484
0
In the Williams Collection, some sounds were different/missing than what I remembered in the arcade. Is this still the case, or has it been changed?
In the arcade: For the left ramp, when the spinner is lit, I remember the sound was the same as for advancing to the next level in Robotron, but that wasn't in the Williams Collection.
In the arcade: If more than one player were playing, the extra time awarded did not have the looping music from the normal game play, but a kind of electronic ticking sound. This was not
present in the Williams Collection.

It's been ages and ages since I played this in an arcade, but I *think* that was my experience.
You are absolutely right. The lit spinner ramp is still missing. I had forgotten about the background sound when playing extra time. It has been a long time since I played it against another player.

Everything on the game should fall into line with the arcade one when the rom emulation is added in the not too distant future.
 

Jay

Member
May 19, 2012
478
3
Another sound that seems to be missing is the laugh. When I lose the ball on the real table (especially if I've missed the MagnaSave), the Black Knight emits a nasty sarcastic laugh. I've never heard it in the PA version.
 

HiTechKoke

New member
Sep 1, 2012
65
0
+1 on your observations as a current and long time BK owner.

#1 bothers me the most not seeing the upper left flipper in portrait mode on the iPad3 which is my realm. I put it in Camera mode #3 which gives you a little edge of the flipper which helps but then in this camera mode the HUD score display obscures the playfield at the top. It looks like there is room to move it up or even off to the left side in this camera mode so it would not block the view. In the end though have a lower wall or a little higher angle to see the flipper would be nice. Hey maybe an adjustable degree of view would be interesting... but probably out of scope.

Even with the various bugs I still love the game, the other big one is the stuck 2 or 3 ball display already reported along with my just reported Tilt Swipe mode not working on the right side.
 

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