Two stage flippers poll

I'm just curious what you guys think of the two stage flippers? I'm not a big fan. I find it really messes up my game and I would really love to have an option to turn it off.
What do you guys think?

I've adjusted to it. I have a heavy trigger pull though.
2-stage fippers only matter on tables with multiple flippers.
It's how it supposed to be.

I've sort of adjusted to it, although my timing on the upper playfield of BK is erratic now. Also, my palms ache from holding the PS3 controller, which they never did before. I would welcome an option to turn them off.

Generally upper flipper lateral shots (TAF, TZ, TG:HS2, ST:TNG etc.) are tough enough as it is, without introducing the extra vagueness of PS3 bumpers. Will be interesting to see how they feel with the 360 triggers.

Right now it's really uncomfortable to activate the upper flipper consistently and I have stopped playing BK.

Squid said:

I've adjusted to it. I have a heavy trigger pull though.
2-stage fippers only matter on tables with multiple flippers.
It's how it supposed to be.

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It may be how it's "supposed to be", but I would wager that someone relatively new to pinball could play a real table and not even notice dual stage flippers, there is no way not to notice the presence of them on ps3. They need to make the upper flippers more sensitive or something. I would prefer a toggle, even if it is not a 100% perfect simulation. I don't play the games with upper flippers nearly as much as I used to anymore...

The only table I have an issue with is BK with the upper flippers, having to press extra hard repeatedly gets uncomfortable after a couple games.

alexk3954 said:

I would wager that someone relatively new to pinball could play a real table and not even notice dual stage flippers...

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That would be a safe bet, especially since on most tables there is only about 1 mm of button distance between a full flip and a stage flip. Even watching a reasonable player likely wouldn't clue a novice in, as the need to actually perform a two-stage flip arises very rarely, and since it is a very difficult maneuver on a real table, a lot of players (like myself) won't even attempt it, instead preferring to move the ball(s) below to the opposite flipper before taking the upper flipper shot.

I'm assuming FarSight can control at what percentages (of a full press) the two stages "fire". If so, then I think we should get a pair of sensitivity sliders to adjust those percentages to taste. Not only would this help with the two-stage deathgrip issue, but some players might like their overall flipper response twitchier or looser, similar to how much play the physical flipper buttons have on a real table.

I have only experienced the two stage flippers with Ripley's, and although I find it annoying, the only time I use them is in collecting super jackpots. To pick these up I always go through the vari-target, so I know in advance that I'll need a harder press and can ready myself for it (my standard press isn't hard enough to activate the upper flipper). These occur rarely enough that I've gotten use to it. We don't have Black Knight in EU yet, but, remembering it from PHoF, the ball is in the upper playfield a ton and I can imagine how annoying it must be. Many more reflex shots, and them coming thick and fast so I can see exactly what Fuseball and ScotchYeti are saying.

Squid makes the point that this is true simulation and that's how it is on the real tables but surely Farsight can add an option to turn them off? It's not like you have the option to turn off tilt, use a custom ball or play mirrored versions of tables in real life but all those options existed in PHoF.

Do any more of the DLC tables have these flippers? We only have MM, BoP, FH and CV in EU at the moment, and like I said it's only affecting Ripley's for me right now so it's not a huge deal.

Baintz said:

Do any more of the DLC tables have these flippers? We only have MM, BoP, FH and CV in EU at the moment, and like I said it's only affecting Ripley's for me right now so it's not a huge deal.

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Black Knight and No Good Gofers do, and Twilight Zone and ST:TNG will once they're out.

Um, poll questions a bit biased much?!

Cause I like it, but yes would like to be able to turn it off. Instead I'm gonna mark 'don't even notice', cause for the most part I don't. I'm glad it's there though, cause it is a part of real machines.

I completely forgot that FH has the upper flipper when making my previous post, and that gets used much more (for me anyway) than the upper flipper in Ripley's. Getting the trap door shot is definitely harder than the PHof version

Personally I don't like it as I find shoulder buttons uncomfortable enough without having to slam on them.

Certainly an option to disable it would mean everyone gets the play mechanic they like, so it would be a win - win.

15 to 3..... The pinheads have spoken!

Here's the thing. I like dual stage flippers on a real machine, but it just doesn't work well on a console controller.
This sounds like a rather easy fix to make everyone happy.
Just include an option to turn them on/off in the settings.

I would only turn on the option if I were using proper arcade buttons though.

why don't you guys go play some 90s video pinball if thats what you want

I would like it if it only worked on the R2/L2 buttons. It's easier to judge how hard you need to pull those than R1/L1.

Rudy Yagov said:

I would like it if it only worked on the R2/L2 buttons. It's easier to judge how hard you need to pull those than R1/L1.

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But on the real machines, there's really not that much difference between first stage and second stage. Using the L1/R1 is much closer to the way the real table feels.

Pinball machine manufacturers weren't even trying to make easy to use two stage flippers when they made them. They weren't even trying to make two stage flippers. They were just trying to add another flipper or two without changing the basic design of the pinball tables and increasing the cost. The solution that became the standard was to just put one leaf switch on top of the other leaf switch. Then the players discovered that you could actually activate the top switch without activating the bottom switch by carefully pressing the flipper button only part way. I have never even been good enough to do this on a regular basis on a real pinball table and actually only learned about this recently. To be honest I've only been able to try this on a couple of machines and have not been very successful. I have a feeling that the more worn the flipper button and switches are the harder it is to have precise control to only activate one switch.

But anyway, if FarSight is actually success at implementing the two stage switch then it should be near impossible to pull off every time that you want to do it.

You can adjust the spacing on the switches to make it more or less sensitive and adjust the switches to the buttons for a firm press feeling or hair trigger sensitive.

shutyertrap said:

But on the real machines, there's really not that much difference between first stage and second stage. Using the L1/R1 is much closer to the way the real table feels.

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I'm a pinball owner with two machines that have two stage flippers. Pinball buttons are much deeper than L1/R1 buttons. The point is, it's annoying having to push L1/R1 harder when they're so shallow as it is.

alexk3954 said:

It may be how it's "supposed to be", but I would wager that someone relatively new to pinball could play a real table and not even notice dual stage flippers, there is no way not to notice the presence of them on ps3.

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I've been playing pinball all my life (turned 40 this year) and until a few weeks ago, I'd never even heard of dual stage flippers. Still not real sure what they are or how they're supposed to work.

Tabe