Slam23
Active member
- Jul 21, 2012
- 1,279
- 2
Hi guys,
I’m back with my second (significantly longer I might add) side-by-side comparison of a real table and it’s TPA counterpart (the first being CFTBL). I chose STTNG as I played it frequently in the last month on TPA. I’m currently at 16B (courtesy of Roy Wils’ pro tip to only hit for subsequent Borg Multiballs) and completed all standard and wizard goals. Last night I had the chance of playing the real one in the clubhouse of the Dutch Pinball Association. I played about 15 games (I probably looked a bit maniacal
) and got through most missions, completed video mode a couple of times and had multiple Borg and “races”(Ferengi, Cardassian etc) multiballs. Best score I achieved was near 2B, giving me second place. I experimented with a lot of shots, including my “bread and butter” moves on the iPad. The table itself had some wear (it’s after all exactly 20 years old this year!) but overall it played really smooth. Nothing was broken and all rubbers and slingshots were fairly bouncy and reactive. As with my first comparison I will note as disclaimer that real tables can vary wildly because of their individual characteristics, like physics, set-up (angle and such), wear/tear and flipper/coil strength.
So here it goes (comparisons are described from the standpoint of the real table with the TPA if not otherwise specified):
Plunger/Skill Shots: I chose a lot of ball locks because of the quicker progression to Borg Multiball. If those were no longer available, I went with Start Mission or Warp 4. The ball locked perfectly. Other shots to the rollover/bumper area behaved exactly like TPA, aside from the normal randomness that is present on real tables. But the ball most often dropped into the left most rollover, just like in TPA.
Rollover targets/bumper area: the same result as with CFTBL but more similar. The ball doesn’t stay as long in the bumper area on the real machine and there are less friendly bounces upward through the rollover lanes. That said, there is also a big variation on the TPA table, balls can leave after 1 or 2 bumper hits, but I also got upward of 30M worth of hits with Warp 4 active, and sometimes even up to 10x bonus in one bumper “session”. I would say overall that the average time is shorter, and while there are upward bounces through the rollover targets, they are substantially less frequent. When the ball leaves this area, it most frequently did that at the left side (under the beta quadrant ramp), but with significantly less disastrous results drainwise. I would say about 60-40 percent distribution. On the TPA table it most frequently leaves through the right loop (80-20?). This is an important difference in my opinion because the ball returning through the right loop is instrumental in quickly setting up controlled right loop shots to the lock.
Right loop: regardless of ball speed, returning balls from the bumper area get fed to the right flipper perfectly, just as on the TPA table (don’t try this with fast balls from the left loop!). A dead pass onto the left for ball control works like a charm. Easily one of the best similarities between the TPA and real table, also because of the critical importance in achieving lock shots towards Borg Multiball.
Right upper flipper: spot on! This flipper feels exactly the same as the one on the TPA table. Shooting the delta ramp from the bumper area or with a combo shot (Picard Maneuver) from the right flipper have the same speed and feel as in TPA. I immediately starting hitting those in my first games on the real table, almost from rote motor memory it seemed. Shots to the “Command Decision” hole are also very similar, a tad easier to shoot on the real table I think. Hitting the Neutral Zone is possible but more difficult because of the extreme angle. This also depends a lot on ball speed.
Outlanes/middle drain: oh boy, our favorite parts of the table And I must say the outlanes are a lot more forgiving on the real machine. I can’t say that I can point to any particular reason but I would suspect that they could have been worse on the fresh-out-of-the-box tables in 1993 because of higher reactivity and bounce from rubbers and slingshots. I have learned to nudge pre-emptively on the iPad, on the real table nudging can be successful even as the balls are just above the in- and outlanes. I lost more balls to middle drains, so that seemed more harsh, but I’m not sure if that would stand up over time when averaging those out against the less frequent outlane drains.
Right flipper (shots): Deadpassing to the left flipper works like a charm as said before, as is post passing. Shooting from the right flipper is more or less difficult depending on the shots. Shooting the mission hole is far easier with a controlled ball than on the iPad, I could hit that one consistently on the real machine. The Neutral Zone and Alpha ramp are about even and the left loop is more difficult (seems a more extreme angle on the real machine, requiring a shot from the tip of the flipper). Impressively, the Alpha Ramp shot doesn’t require clean shots, even with some ricochets the ramp can be completed. On the other hand, quickly backhanding a rolling shot to the mission hole is impossible on the real machine because of angle. Shots returning from the right ramp can be actively passed to the left flipper, just as on the TPA table but with the difference that they also can be cradled (on the TPA table the ball doesn't have enough speed, forcing a tip shot from the left flipper).
Left flipper (shots): Feeds from the inlane can be actively passed to the right flipper, just as on the TPA table, hitting the left loop from the right is more difficult with this pass. Deadpassing from left to right has less use on the table I think, I didn’t try that a lot. Shooting the right loop from a controlled position is easier on the real table, you can use a full ball width of real estate on the right part of the flipper, while on TPA it’s the utmost right point, almost tipping the ball over to the drain. Shooting the right loop with a rolling ball is also easier. Locking the ball is a bit easier: on the iPad it needs a really clean and powerful shot, otherwise it trickles away through the left-most rollover. On the real table also less clean shots get locked. Nice detail: after getting a lit lock from shooting the right loop, you sometimes get a lucky bounce from the left-most rollover post back into the lock. This is exactly the same behavior on the TPA table. I found shooting the Beta ramp more difficult. In part because my aiming seemed off, but where the TPA table often needs quite forceful shots to make the bend, on the real table this is even more so. Could be a coil strength variable. Hitting the mission hole is spot on, same area on the flipper. It’s more difficult though to make, but that’s not because of the flipper, but because the hole itself seems more unforgiving (see later on). Curiously, the mission hole can also be made with a less forceful shot from the left part of the left flipper, almost “backhanding” it as it were. That will just reach the mission hole and trickle in. Can’t make that one with TPA as far as I know. Alpha ramp shots are a lot easier on the real table, there is more margin to shoot them, as said before also with some ricochets to the walls of the ramp. This works really good when playing Borg Multiball: if you time the shot for jackpot too early, it will often enter the Alpha ramp which in turn feeds the left flipper for another try. On the TPA table I seem to hit the entry posts more often when aim is slightly off.
Slingshots: less active and bouncy in comparison with the TPA table, reducing the chance the ball shoots towards the outlanes, but increasing the chance for middle drains. It’s a trade-off that is about even I think. Could be a wear/tear thing. Angles and basic reactivity are essentially the same.
Mission Hole and Command Decision Hole: the mission hole is a bit more difficult on the real table because when you shoot from a slight angle (as with the cannon shot), the left post and right metal guide wall are more unforgiving. Shooting a controlled ball from the right flipper seems to be the most straight shot, that may explain why I found this shot easier than shooting from the left. This is in reverse for me on the TPA table. The command decision hole is spot on, even the shots that come really close but just don’t make it (you all know what I’m talking about) are exactly the same.
Cannons: I would surmise that the cannons are the most vulnerable part of the whole table, but they were in perfect working order. I know from VP that they are a pain in the behind to get them working right. Farsight did a really great job emulating them, speed, force, angles, all part of a perfect recreation in my opinion. It was to be expected that I had to adjust to the specific cannons on the real table, funny enough I unconsciously tried to adjust my playing stance to emulate the same camera angle that TPA uses when they get loaded (looking over their “shoulder” as it were). When I got the hang of them, I could shoot multiball jackpots repeatedly from the left cannon. I didn’t fool around a lot with “launching a probe”, so I didn’t try other angles and shots. The same with the right cannon, I only used that one on the Neutral Zone when playing Battle Simulation. That mission also played nearly the same as on the TPA table, sometimes a big streak of hits, sometimes one hit and over. I did find that the right cannon shot to the Neutral Zone required more precision, or something was amiss. Only direct hits to the hole (and maybe the target behind it) registered consistently for a hit, ricochet shots from the side targets into the hole didn’t as far as I observed. On the TPA table it looks like those do count but I’m not sure about that.
Final Verdict: this was the second TPA kickstarter table, citing the expensive license as main reason for kickstarting it. I would say that for me this also ups the expectations towards overall quality and the table doesn’t disappoint in that regard. Generally the real table is more difficult, partly because of randomness, partly because some shots require a tad more control and precision (mission hole shots in particular). This will probably hold true for all comparisons I guess, up until Farsight can introduce more randomness and advanced physics like ball spin. The biggest differences would be friendlier outlanes (but with a trade-off in more frequent middle drains) in combination with less dangerous slingshots, less time spent in the bumper area and fewer friendly upward rollover bounces. Also the ball leaves the bumper area more frequently to the left, fortunately without the default left outlane drain that you’ll have to nudge away from on the iPad. Overall I’m really impressed how a lot of the gameplay and physics is very similar to the real table. Especially the cannons which are not easy to emulate behave essentially the same. But also a lot of ball control maneuvers (deadpassing, post passing) work like a charm. It comes closer to the real table than the CFTBL table in my opinion, probably reflecting Farsight’s progress in developing physics.
Comments are most welcome, I’m especially interested in the experience of real table owners to compare to or contrast with my story. I’ll try to come up with another comparison next month. Thank You Mr. Data and Good Luck!
I’m back with my second (significantly longer I might add) side-by-side comparison of a real table and it’s TPA counterpart (the first being CFTBL). I chose STTNG as I played it frequently in the last month on TPA. I’m currently at 16B (courtesy of Roy Wils’ pro tip to only hit for subsequent Borg Multiballs) and completed all standard and wizard goals. Last night I had the chance of playing the real one in the clubhouse of the Dutch Pinball Association. I played about 15 games (I probably looked a bit maniacal
) and got through most missions, completed video mode a couple of times and had multiple Borg and “races”(Ferengi, Cardassian etc) multiballs. Best score I achieved was near 2B, giving me second place. I experimented with a lot of shots, including my “bread and butter” moves on the iPad. The table itself had some wear (it’s after all exactly 20 years old this year!) but overall it played really smooth. Nothing was broken and all rubbers and slingshots were fairly bouncy and reactive. As with my first comparison I will note as disclaimer that real tables can vary wildly because of their individual characteristics, like physics, set-up (angle and such), wear/tear and flipper/coil strength. So here it goes (comparisons are described from the standpoint of the real table with the TPA if not otherwise specified):
Plunger/Skill Shots: I chose a lot of ball locks because of the quicker progression to Borg Multiball. If those were no longer available, I went with Start Mission or Warp 4. The ball locked perfectly. Other shots to the rollover/bumper area behaved exactly like TPA, aside from the normal randomness that is present on real tables. But the ball most often dropped into the left most rollover, just like in TPA.
Rollover targets/bumper area: the same result as with CFTBL but more similar. The ball doesn’t stay as long in the bumper area on the real machine and there are less friendly bounces upward through the rollover lanes. That said, there is also a big variation on the TPA table, balls can leave after 1 or 2 bumper hits, but I also got upward of 30M worth of hits with Warp 4 active, and sometimes even up to 10x bonus in one bumper “session”. I would say overall that the average time is shorter, and while there are upward bounces through the rollover targets, they are substantially less frequent. When the ball leaves this area, it most frequently did that at the left side (under the beta quadrant ramp), but with significantly less disastrous results drainwise. I would say about 60-40 percent distribution. On the TPA table it most frequently leaves through the right loop (80-20?). This is an important difference in my opinion because the ball returning through the right loop is instrumental in quickly setting up controlled right loop shots to the lock.
Right loop: regardless of ball speed, returning balls from the bumper area get fed to the right flipper perfectly, just as on the TPA table (don’t try this with fast balls from the left loop!). A dead pass onto the left for ball control works like a charm. Easily one of the best similarities between the TPA and real table, also because of the critical importance in achieving lock shots towards Borg Multiball.
Right upper flipper: spot on! This flipper feels exactly the same as the one on the TPA table. Shooting the delta ramp from the bumper area or with a combo shot (Picard Maneuver) from the right flipper have the same speed and feel as in TPA. I immediately starting hitting those in my first games on the real table, almost from rote motor memory it seemed. Shots to the “Command Decision” hole are also very similar, a tad easier to shoot on the real table I think. Hitting the Neutral Zone is possible but more difficult because of the extreme angle. This also depends a lot on ball speed.
Outlanes/middle drain: oh boy, our favorite parts of the table
And I must say the outlanes are a lot more forgiving on the real machine. I can’t say that I can point to any particular reason but I would suspect that they could have been worse on the fresh-out-of-the-box tables in 1993 because of higher reactivity and bounce from rubbers and slingshots. I have learned to nudge pre-emptively on the iPad, on the real table nudging can be successful even as the balls are just above the in- and outlanes. I lost more balls to middle drains, so that seemed more harsh, but I’m not sure if that would stand up over time when averaging those out against the less frequent outlane drains. Right flipper (shots): Deadpassing to the left flipper works like a charm as said before, as is post passing. Shooting from the right flipper is more or less difficult depending on the shots. Shooting the mission hole is far easier with a controlled ball than on the iPad, I could hit that one consistently on the real machine. The Neutral Zone and Alpha ramp are about even and the left loop is more difficult (seems a more extreme angle on the real machine, requiring a shot from the tip of the flipper). Impressively, the Alpha Ramp shot doesn’t require clean shots, even with some ricochets the ramp can be completed. On the other hand, quickly backhanding a rolling shot to the mission hole is impossible on the real machine because of angle. Shots returning from the right ramp can be actively passed to the left flipper, just as on the TPA table but with the difference that they also can be cradled (on the TPA table the ball doesn't have enough speed, forcing a tip shot from the left flipper).
Left flipper (shots): Feeds from the inlane can be actively passed to the right flipper, just as on the TPA table, hitting the left loop from the right is more difficult with this pass. Deadpassing from left to right has less use on the table I think, I didn’t try that a lot. Shooting the right loop from a controlled position is easier on the real table, you can use a full ball width of real estate on the right part of the flipper, while on TPA it’s the utmost right point, almost tipping the ball over to the drain. Shooting the right loop with a rolling ball is also easier. Locking the ball is a bit easier: on the iPad it needs a really clean and powerful shot, otherwise it trickles away through the left-most rollover. On the real table also less clean shots get locked. Nice detail: after getting a lit lock from shooting the right loop, you sometimes get a lucky bounce from the left-most rollover post back into the lock. This is exactly the same behavior on the TPA table. I found shooting the Beta ramp more difficult. In part because my aiming seemed off, but where the TPA table often needs quite forceful shots to make the bend, on the real table this is even more so. Could be a coil strength variable. Hitting the mission hole is spot on, same area on the flipper. It’s more difficult though to make, but that’s not because of the flipper, but because the hole itself seems more unforgiving (see later on). Curiously, the mission hole can also be made with a less forceful shot from the left part of the left flipper, almost “backhanding” it as it were. That will just reach the mission hole and trickle in. Can’t make that one with TPA as far as I know. Alpha ramp shots are a lot easier on the real table, there is more margin to shoot them, as said before also with some ricochets to the walls of the ramp. This works really good when playing Borg Multiball: if you time the shot for jackpot too early, it will often enter the Alpha ramp which in turn feeds the left flipper for another try. On the TPA table I seem to hit the entry posts more often when aim is slightly off.
Slingshots: less active and bouncy in comparison with the TPA table, reducing the chance the ball shoots towards the outlanes, but increasing the chance for middle drains. It’s a trade-off that is about even I think. Could be a wear/tear thing. Angles and basic reactivity are essentially the same.
Mission Hole and Command Decision Hole: the mission hole is a bit more difficult on the real table because when you shoot from a slight angle (as with the cannon shot), the left post and right metal guide wall are more unforgiving. Shooting a controlled ball from the right flipper seems to be the most straight shot, that may explain why I found this shot easier than shooting from the left. This is in reverse for me on the TPA table. The command decision hole is spot on, even the shots that come really close but just don’t make it (you all know what I’m talking about
) are exactly the same. Cannons: I would surmise that the cannons are the most vulnerable part of the whole table, but they were in perfect working order. I know from VP that they are a pain in the behind to get them working right. Farsight did a really great job emulating them, speed, force, angles, all part of a perfect recreation in my opinion. It was to be expected that I had to adjust to the specific cannons on the real table, funny enough I unconsciously tried to adjust my playing stance to emulate the same camera angle that TPA uses when they get loaded (looking over their “shoulder” as it were). When I got the hang of them, I could shoot multiball jackpots repeatedly from the left cannon. I didn’t fool around a lot with “launching a probe”, so I didn’t try other angles and shots. The same with the right cannon, I only used that one on the Neutral Zone when playing Battle Simulation. That mission also played nearly the same as on the TPA table, sometimes a big streak of hits, sometimes one hit and over. I did find that the right cannon shot to the Neutral Zone required more precision, or something was amiss. Only direct hits to the hole (and maybe the target behind it) registered consistently for a hit, ricochet shots from the side targets into the hole didn’t as far as I observed. On the TPA table it looks like those do count but I’m not sure about that.
Final Verdict: this was the second TPA kickstarter table, citing the expensive license as main reason for kickstarting it. I would say that for me this also ups the expectations towards overall quality and the table doesn’t disappoint in that regard. Generally the real table is more difficult, partly because of randomness, partly because some shots require a tad more control and precision (mission hole shots in particular). This will probably hold true for all comparisons I guess, up until Farsight can introduce more randomness and advanced physics like ball spin. The biggest differences would be friendlier outlanes (but with a trade-off in more frequent middle drains) in combination with less dangerous slingshots, less time spent in the bumper area and fewer friendly upward rollover bounces. Also the ball leaves the bumper area more frequently to the left, fortunately without the default left outlane drain that you’ll have to nudge away from on the iPad. Overall I’m really impressed how a lot of the gameplay and physics is very similar to the real table. Especially the cannons which are not easy to emulate behave essentially the same. But also a lot of ball control maneuvers (deadpassing, post passing) work like a charm. It comes closer to the real table than the CFTBL table in my opinion, probably reflecting Farsight’s progress in developing physics.
Comments are most welcome, I’m especially interested in the experience of real table owners to compare to or contrast with my story. I’ll try to come up with another comparison next month. Thank You Mr. Data and Good Luck!
