How much playfield repetition can TPA stand?

Following the Pin*Bot/Jack*bot discussions in the Williams poll and elsewhere I got curious about how much repetition TPA will be able to stand in it's mission of preserving pinball.

While the PB/JB example is still fresh in mind, it illustrates how introducing a change in the chipset, display and rules can alter the game quite a bit, but in the earlier days there was a lot of repetion without the ability to add much to the game.

Take Eldorado for example: You have Eldorado, Canada Dry, Lucky Strike, Gold Strike, Target Alpha, Solar City and Eldorado: City of Gold. All basically the same game with minor changes

Or there's Big Shot, Hot Shot, Pro Pool, and Pinball Pool. All the same game with the last having some playfield alterations.

I know there is some push to have Jack*Bot included as it seems to be a large enough change from Pin*Bot, so where should the line get drawn on repetitions? As with Hot Shot and Central park the 1 player, 4 player and add a ball versions have all be merged into one version for the digital re-creation, but what about the playfield art variations like with El-Dorado?

The line gets drawn when FS decides that the table isn't popular enough to sell as many tables as other table choices would. I know their "mission" is to preserve pinball tables digitally but that's just a saying or a tag line. They are a for profit company and must make money in order to keep preserving tables.

As long as they don't waste their time with HarleyDavidson 2nd Edition and HD:1st Edition.

TomL said:

As long as they don't waste their time with HarleyDavidson 2nd Edition and HD:1st Edition.

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That's not even fun to joke about.

Kolchak357 said:

That's not even fun to joke about.

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Actually, that was hilarious.

I thought this was going to be a thread about how similar AfM and MM are. Oh, and Monster Bash and CFtBL

Shaneus said:

I thought this was going to be a thread about how similar AfM and MM are. Oh, and Monster Bash and CFtBL

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Yeah MM and AFM was designed by the same guy. Sure it will have similar things but there are notable differences such as the rule set.

Monster Bash and CFtBL is by theme only. MB is the better table by far. Much deeper and more strategic.

In terms of duplicate tables would you guys prefer to see High speed or the Getaway? Or should they both be included? Personally I'd like to have both but I might be in the minority on that.

rob3d said:

In terms of duplicate tables would you guys prefer to see High speed or the Getaway? Or should they both be included? Personally I'd like to have both but I might be in the minority on that.

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High Speed is an awesome table. If I had to select one I'd pick High Speed, but either would be better than none at all. I own High Speed on NES (cartridge), and it is one of the finest 8-bit pinball sims I've ever played. I voted up both in the Williams poll just to make sure at least one of them gets included. Genrerally, if there's two similar tables, I'd prefer the original, but some might prefer the later table, often with more bells and whistles.

EDIT: Perhaps with regards to duplicate tables, FS could release both as a table pack. I think High Speed/Getaway is a popular enough table so that FS could do that and people would buy it. I know I would. I always thought it was silly of them to put tables that just don't seem to go together in the same table pack. PB and Bride of PB (which are vastly different games btw) could have gone together as a single pack; Central Park and Big Shot could have gone together as a single pack, as well as Elvira and Scare Stiff belong together. Certain tables just feel like they should be married to each other, yet the distribution of certain table packs seems pretty random and not thought out, ie pairing an EM with a DMD or pairing a circus theme with a space theme, for instance.

Even if it's too similar to BK, I would love to see BK2000.

StarDust4Ever said:

EDIT: Perhaps with regards to duplicate tables, FS could release both as a table pack. I think High Speed/Getaway is a popular enough table so that FS could do that and people would buy it.

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That's kinda what I'm hoping for, hopefully we get one but I would love both.

TomL said:

Even if it's too similar to BK, I would love to see BK2000.

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I dont think that bk2000 is too similar to bk. Sure, they have the same theme and two playfields, but they play very differently. Also, their is simply nothing close to bk2000's visual effects and soundtrack.

I would love to see bk2000 make its way to tpa, i would even get the pro version.

I think a better example of similarity would be family guy and shrek.

BK2000 must happen.

Edan-Grossman said:

I dont think that bk2000 is too similar to bk. Sure, they have the same theme and two playfields, but they play very differently. Also, their is simply nothing close to bk2000's visual effects and soundtrack.

I would love to see bk2000 make its way to tpa, i would even get the pro version.

I think a better example of similarity would be family guy and shrek.

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I think Shrek would be the better choice between the two, because of Family Guy's chance of bumping the ESRB rating up. Depends if Dreamworks Animation is lenient enough to allow Farsight to recreate it.

Pinballfan69 said:

Yeah MM and AFM was designed by the same guy. Sure it will have similar things but there are notable differences such as the rule set.

Monster Bash and CFtBL is by theme only. MB is the better table by far. Much deeper and more strategic.

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To me a lot of DMD titles from that era are, perhaps only on the surface, the same thing... around 5 loops/ramps/targets, hit each of them X times to add them to the jackpot mode, hit target Y to activate jackpot mode. I'm sure there's deeper stuff in each, but AFM/MM/CFTBL/MB mostly just remind me of the same thing.

Anyway, IMO a lot of sequel tables tend to be different from their older brothers and would warrant inclusion. Only exception to this would be Centaur (and possibly Firepower 2, but not because it's similar, just because it's not supposed to not be that good)

Edan-Grossman said:

I dont think that bk2000 is too similar to bk. Sure, they have the same theme and two playfields, but they play very differently. Also, their is simply nothing close to bk2000's visual effects and soundtrack.

I would love to see bk2000 make its way to tpa, i would even get the pro version.

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I just had an idea... if Stern ever, EVER decided to release a non-licensed table but want one that would actually sell, they could totally do a Black Knight 3000. Get S. Ritchie on board, find an artist to do that medieval artwork justice and then just watch the money roll in.

Shaneus said:

I just had an idea... if Stern ever, EVER decided to release a non-licensed table but want one that would actually sell, they could totally do a Black Knight 3000. Get S. Ritchie on board, find an artist to do that medieval artwork justice and then just watch the money roll in.

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More like a Red Knight 3000. Just get Barnstorm Games in, and that will be a future Pro Pinball title. (If you don't know what I'm saying, it's a Quickshot reward from the Future on Timeshock!.)

In the case of all the El Dorado variations, it would be cool to just have a skin option to change the playfield and the necessary assets within the same table file. It would increase the files size though. I'm sure some free advertisement for Canada Dry wouldn't be too hard to negotiate. That way it's less redundant and adds a bit of variety.

For High Speed...ideally both tables in a pack..that would be amazing. But I have to select the second one if I have to choose between them.

Shaneus said:

I just had an idea... if Stern ever, EVER decided to release a non-licensed table but want one that would actually sell, they could totally do a Black Knight 3000. Get S. Ritchie on board, find an artist to do that medieval artwork justice and then just watch the money roll in.

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Screw that, BK2000 already topped the BK levels of awesome What I want to see is a true thematic sequel to CENTAUR! That game's gonna be one of the most stylish pinball tables ever, especially within the TPA selection.

There's already a Centaur 2, but it's almost the same game, I want a DMD table

I welcome Jack-Bot (love the pinbot series and theme), Both High Speeds, BK2K of course... Every Williams table deserves a release IMO, even sequels.

I vote for variety. The Pinball Arcade should please many tastes. BK isn't played often on TPA (look at the leaderboards). So why should there be BK2000 (BK+lucky wheel and singing)?! Same happens with PinBot. Few really like it.

There could be some fantasy or a bowling table for something new.

BTW: CFTBL isn't particularly similar to MM, AFM and MB which share a similar layout and many rules. The latter three are popular enough to justify another entry.