Request General Game Polish

Feb 19, 2014
225
0
Games been out for over two years. Even the ps4 version is 5 months old.

There are some very noticeable, and very easy to fix things that I feel are a real shame that they haven't been adressed yet.

I feel that Farsight needs to take a good look at the outstanding bugs and really go hard on a bug fix sweep.

Tables like Theatre of Magic and Monster Bash, because they are two of the greatest tables of all time, I feel deserve to be updated. It's really minor stuff that goes a long way. The rubbers are too bouncy and slings too sensitive on Theatre in particular. Playing Theatre after playing a more recent release makes this very noticeable that the physics on it are a good bit older. While Arabian Nights has been updated, it seems. Neither table has an animated DMD, is it that hard to add?

Beyond bugs, which are covered for each various table in each section of the forum, some of which that are over two years old, there's art issues. The one that bothers me the most is the low resolution back glasses. This is especially apparent on the ps4 version.

Beyond the backglasses which are the worst offenders, there's a mix of low res assets with the high res ones on the Playfields themselves. Take Star Trek for example. Alpha quadrant, beta quadrant then, *^%#% quadrant. The blurry quadrant, well call it, the one that's blurry and pixelated from a distance even. It just looks like corner cutting when some assets are high res and others aren't, and it's diffefent table to table. I feel , though, that you should be able to read the rule card and the Williams logo on the pins themselves should not be pixelated even from a distance.

Finally, is it too much to ask for rom emulation of older tables, like Black Knight, Firepower, and Gorgar? This was promised over two years ago from Bobby of Farsight and never delivered. These older tables still sell new digital copies to people all over the world every day, and are classics that deserve better! How hard can it be? It's not like were asking to completely rescript them from scratch, Space Shuttle , Flight 2000, Haunted House, and Centaur all have emulation and are from the same era more or less, so what's the issue?

New features are great, and always welcomed, but I personally don't care about tournaments, online multiplayer (people would just drop out anyway when I do a 30-45 min ball) and new UI, but I feel that this stuff, which is far easier to implement, should be top priority. After all, we already paid for the game, don't we deserve polished, satisfactory work, instead of just "good enough" or "beta"? I'm sick of silly workarounds, like making sure to stop flipping in Twilight Zone on LITZ lest I get a ball stuck behind the upper right flipper and blow a game, to name one example. Some bugs don't even have workarounds, like the game ending Funhouse glitch.

Isn't it an insult to the person who drew the medieval madness backglass, which is awesome, that I can't even make out some of the finer details? That textures are grainy and pixelated, like Elvira Scared Stiff, a table that zooms into that very backglass as a part of gameplay? Even from a distance. Even on the ps4 and PC versions, which obviously have enough ram. This simply shouldn't be an issue at all on those platforms.

All these fixes, IMO, do not require that much work for the most part. It's not like redoing the UI, which takes a ton of work, this is in most cases easy to implement stuff, how hard really can it be to give a better texture for a backglass? To fix an obvious bug like silver powerball on Twilight Zone, a visible ball under Playfield in Creature, or an invisible display in funhouse? Or art issues, like the lines on the pf in funhouse?

I felt compelled to make this thread, after the much anticipated ps4 patch has come out, and instead of addressing sound quality, or addressing anything lol, it broke the leaderboards! Lol. So instead of making the game better, they've patched to make it worse! I'm laughing but it really is no laughing matter!

Thanks and chime in with you're own thoughts. Thank you for reading.
 
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Sean DonCarlos

Moderator
Staff member
Mar 17, 2012
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Finally, is it too much to ask for rom emulation of older tables, like Black Knight, Firepower, and Gorgar? This was promised over two years ago from Bobby of Farsight and never delivered. These older tables still sell new digital copies to people all over the world every day, and are classics that deserve better! How hard can it be? It's not like were asking to completely rescript them from scratch, Space Shuttle , Flight 2000, Haunted House, and Centaur all have emulation and are from the same era more or less, so what's the issue?
The issue is that Space Shuttle, Flight 2000, Haunted House, and Centaur use four different chipsets and so require four different emulation frameworks. Not all pinball machines were made the same, and developing new emulation tech to accommodate the different ROMs is a heavy and lengthy undertaking.

All these fixes, IMO, do not require that much work for the most part.
Unless you currently or in the past participated in software development for a living (as in, you were involved with code beyond the hobbyist level), you're pretty much baselessly speculating. Even for experienced software developers, software time and cost estimation is a dark art and notoriously difficult to get right.

Several times in the history of TPA, a seemingly innocent change broke some other apparently unrelated feature. I remember once on iOS that adding a selection of touch region options caused TPA to crash after upgrading, but only if you were upgrading from more than one version ago. So you also need to figure in time for testing and perhaps revisiting of the code later on, because no testing can catch 100% of potential bugs.

I'm not saying these issues don't need to be addressed, but you should be aware that what you are asking for is neither simple nor quick for FarSight to accomplish.
 
Feb 19, 2014
225
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I have friends who do this for a living so it's not baseless speculating, plus I know a thing or two myself.

Updating a texture is not hard, granted you already have a higher quality/resolution scan on file somewhere. Another example: pixelated "ride again" textures on HD, even from distance.

Rom emulation would be the one that requires the most, but It was promised, HH and BH probably use the same or similar hardware, Gorgar FP and Bk all use the same family of board, maybe a little older than Space Shuttle. I never said adding rom emulation was easy, I said it's easier than rescripting by hand, and I stand by that claim.

I stand by my claim that this along with bug fixes are not some crazy out there thing to ask for, and far easier than coding say a UI overhaul.

A company should be able to afford to fix bugs or be arsed to do quality texturework. It's not asking the moon.
 
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brakel

New member
Apr 27, 2012
2,305
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My first thought when seeing this thread was "Who is this Polish General named Game? I've never heard of him but then I'm not really up on my European history."

My next thought was "Here we go again!" It seems like every few months someone feels the need to rehash everything that isn't right with the game as if we haven't been talking about these things for the last two years. Many things have been fixed over these two years and many features have been added. There are still a lot of improvements to be made. I think we all know this. But it's not as if FarSight has guys sitting around wondering what to do next. Everyone that they have budgeted to work on TPA is working on TPA.

So, I guess I don't understand the point. Half of this forum is filled up with discussions about these topics. What's this thread going to do?
 
Feb 19, 2014
225
0
My first thought when seeing this thread was "Who is this Polish General named Game? I've never heard of him but then I'm not really up on my European history."

My next thought was "Here we go again!" It seems like every few months someone feels the need to rehash everything that isn't right with the game as if we haven't been talking about these things for the last two years. Many things have been fixed over these two years and many features have been added. There are still a lot of improvements to be made. I think we all know this. But it's not as if FarSight has guys sitting around wondering what to do next. Everyone that they have budgeted to work on TPA is working on TPA.

So, I guess I don't understand the point. Half of this forum is filled up with discussions about these topics. What's this thread going to do?

Don't you think it's kinda messed up we've been talking about these things for two years?

I intend to accomplish Farsight getting the picture that this is what we want addressed. It's
Long overdue.

I'm not trying to be negative, I'm trying to be positive. Its how I feel. Hopefully something changes. But Farsight needs to see that we care and it should be a priority, not some "oh well get to it. Maybe. If we feel like it" kind of thing.

Again, not asking the moon here, just asking for simple stuff that should have been fixed in the very first patches.
 

Sean DonCarlos

Moderator
Staff member
Mar 17, 2012
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I have friends who are lawyers, but that doesn't mean I'm suddenly qualified to say that "X should be an easy case". It's the same with software development.

You are relatively new here, and so you may not realize you're the 10th or 11th person over the years who has made a "FarSight should fix bugs!" post and proceeded to make some claim that the fixes shouldn't require much effort. It's nothing personal, but after so many threads on the same topic, I've become more than a little tired of people insinuating that bugs could simply be fixed with a little more effort on FS's part. It's far harder than it appears at first glance.
 
N

netizen

Guest
I intend to accomplish Farsight getting the picture that this is what we want addressed. It's
Long overdue.

Can I see your polling data where you got this consensus idea on how you speak for the majority of all players, please?
 
Feb 19, 2014
225
0
Bug fixes are a part of every modern game, from indie stuff, to AAA, and everything in between.

If a studio can't fix bugs within their software, be it "too hard" or "not enough time" etc, then, not to sound harsh but, that just makes the studio look incompetent.

I am new here, but you guys should really hold thier feet to the fire here, not be making excuses. I'm all for Farsight being successful and paying thier bills, but when you have a broken product out there being sold right now, the priority should be fixing that, before taking on even more work like the Xbox One port.

Hopefully once the Xbox One port and 360 is out as well they really get to task on this stuff. And Id like to hear what other members of the forum think about this, there isn't a consolidated thread on the subject, but there is a lot of people talking about it here and there. This way Farsight can see this thread and say, ok, it's important and we should do something about it.
 
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Feb 19, 2014
225
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Can I see your polling data where you got this consensus idea on how you speak for the majority of all players, please?

People talk about it all over the forum and elsewhere. There's a lot of frustrated players particularly on the ps4.

So I guess since this thread is critical of Farsight, even through I mean it to be constructive criticism , I'm going to be ganged up on now?
 

Jeff Strong

Moderator
Staff member
Feb 19, 2012
8,144
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I think it's good that these things are brought up often. Otherwise they kinda just get swept under the carpet.

Yes, it's true that these things take more work than the average gamer might think, but now that we've cleared that up, the concerns/requests themselves are legitimate.

Polish has been one of Farsight's weaknesses, especially early on. They have improved in that regard lately, but some of the earlier tables should be revisited.
 
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canuck

New member
Nov 28, 2012
880
1
It's a time thing, I'm sure there will be more bugfixes in the future...but priorities man, new tables come first. :D

I notice with the monthly updates, that there are always bugfixes included to several other tables in addition to the new release, that says to me that they do care.
 
Feb 19, 2014
225
0
Thanks for the positive responses guys !

Here is A portion of MM backglass taken off a real machine:


Now here is the Ps4 version for reference:


That's from a distance too. As you zoom in it gets even worse.

It breaks my heart to see this as this, to me, is such great artwork and a huge part of what makes pinball so special.

The first image is just an off-camera shot of a real pin with probably a phone camera. A high resolution scan from the source should look even better, yet what's in game is blurry, pixelated, with a dramatic loss of detail.
 
Feb 19, 2014
225
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Ok this next one made me chuckle lol.

So ok here's a SS backglass shot off a real pin:



And here's Farsights:


Here's a source, better quality pic:


Notice how the bat, fly, and Bally logo are mysteriously missing, and the buttons are hard to make out. But look even closer. Farsight left the key in lol their backbox.

So like. Uhh. I thought they took these apart and scanned the actual backglass. This would suggest they actually just took a picture with it still assembled! How else would a key get there!

AND HOW DOES THE ART GUY MISS THAT THE KEY IS LEFT IN!!! Lol
 
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Tabe

Member
Apr 12, 2012
833
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I definitely think the entire game could use a coating of polish, particularly on the PS4 version. Fix the sound, update the UI to something modern, replace the god-awful "Pinball Wizard" sample in the title screen, and give us the most-basic of options (being able to change controller buttons and allowing the use of multiple controllers). Stuff like that. Changing the UI is obviously a fairly involved task and is (as we're told) underway. The others are really, really easy.

Then you get to the stuff that's a little further down in the weeds - upgrading textures, fixing "BOUNS" on Genie, and so on.

And, yes, I do work in software development and know whereof I speak.
 

Terminator

New member
Feb 8, 2014
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FS are too busy pushing out tables every month on many platforms. I doubt they have time for overall polish, maybe when they start running dry on new content... Only then they will (hopefully) apply a major patch.
 

haj

New member
Sep 28, 2012
315
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I also hope the camera has consistent angles - too deep perspective generally... and please let us save the camera setting for per table!
 

brakel

New member
Apr 27, 2012
2,305
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FS are too busy pushing out tables every month on many platforms. I doubt they have time for overall polish, maybe when they start running dry on new content... Only then they will (hopefully) apply a major patch.

Selling content is what pays people to work on the game. If the content "dries up" then no more updates!
 
Feb 19, 2014
225
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Selling content is what pays people to work on the game. If the content "dries up" then no more updates!

Well they have two big paydays coming, Xbox 360 and Xbox One.

Well 3 if you count season 2 coming to ps4. So they'll be making a lot of money on essentially old, already built content. That's the main cake, monthly dlc is just icing on the overall cake.

I really hope once all the platforms are caught up that they get to the polish stage.

I also hope the camera has consistent angles - too deep perspective generally... and please let us save the camera setting for per table!

Agree totally.
 

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