FarSight, please don't fix the MM flipper gap "problem"

David Smith · Jun 20, 2012

I've seen several complaints (mostly from the same couple of people, over and over again) about there being a "bug" in MM that the flippers are too far apart.

There's no bug. Even if the gap between the flippers in PA is wider than in the MM flyer, remember that photos from flyers are taken from prototype machines, which often undergo minor (and even major) tweaks by the time the game goes into production. Further, operators often change out the flippers and rubbers, so all machines in the field will vary on this count.

But most importantly:
1. The PA version feels just like a real MM machine in terms of difficulty. The gap certainly isn't a "canyon" as some have claimed. Like with all pinball games, keep the ball under control and the flipper gap isn't a real issue. Practice, practice, practice.
2. If anything, the PA games should err on the side of making the tables *more* difficult, not less.

A good game on PA can easily last 45 minutes or an hour, which is far too long and makes competing on the leaderboards a chore. I'd much prefer it if specials awarded a points award instead of an extra ball, to keep game times shorter. And for those who have complained about the outlanes on CV -- I think they're about right now. Before the change, games on CV were interminable; now, Join the Cirqus is a decent challenge, which it should be.

So: please, don't change the flippers in MM, and don't change the outlanes in CV. Thanks.

PiN WiZ · Jun 20, 2012

David Smith said:
I've seen several complaints (mostly from the same couple of people, over and over again) about there being a "bug" in MM that the flippers are too far apart.

There's no bug. Even if they gap between the flippers in PA is wider than in the MM flyer, remember that photos from flyers are taken from prototype machines, which often undergo minor (and even major) tweaks by the time the game goes into production. Further, operators often change out the flippers and rubbers, so all machines in the field will vary on this count.

But most importantly:
1. The PA version feels just like a real MM machine in terms of difficulty. The gap certainly isn't a "canyon" as some have claimed. Like with all pinball games, keep the ball under control and the flipper gap isn't a real issue. Practice, practice, practice.
2. If anything, the PA games should err on the side of making the tables *more* difficult, not less.

A good game on PA can easily last 45 minutes or an hour, which is far too long and makes competing on the leaderboards a chore. I'd much prefer it if specials awarded a points award instead of an extra ball, to keep game times shorter. And for those who have complained about the outlanes on CV -- I think they're about right now. Before the change, games on CV were interminable; now, Join the Cirqus is a decent challenge, which it should be.

So: please, don't change the flippers in MM, and don't change the outlanes in CV. Thanks.

I agree with you on the outlanes in CV as there is nothing wrong with them, but the flippers on MM are definitely a little too far apart mainly due to the plastics on either side of the flippers being a little shorter than on the actual pinball table. I have taken pictures from two real MM tables to make comparisons and both show that the plastics I mentioned before are a little too short causing the flippers to be spaced a little too far apart. This is not a problem for me as I currently have over 200,000,000 on MM, but since FarSight is looking to make exact recreations of real world tables, this needs to be fixed.

Jeff Strong · Jun 20, 2012

Yeah, Farsight's goal is replicate the precise dimensions of the real machine, so it needs to be fixed.

David Smith · Jun 20, 2012

Jeff Strong said:
Yeah, Farsight's goal is replicate the precise dimensions of the real machine, so it needs to be fixed.

But it's such a small detail, and MM plays perfectly fine as it is now. I'd much rather Farsight spent their time fixing real bugs or working on new tables.

baronkohinar · Jun 20, 2012

Just because you'd rather see them fix other tables first doesn't mean MM is fine. Even if you personally see no problems with the space between the flippers, something is clearly wrong with the way the ramps are draining if you fail to get the ball all the way up. From what we can tell, this is due to the ramps missing the plastic guides that force the balls to drain towards the center of the table, but certainly fixing the flippers should help as well. Every little thing on a table effects something else to some degree.

Yes, it's unfortunate the newer tables are buggy, yes there are worse bugs in other tables, HOWEVER, we've all been waiting for them to fix MM for ages now it seems, and, as the earliest DLC, it would be nice to see them fix it before worrying about the newer stuff - granted, this is with the caveat that the newer tables should at least be playable, however they've been promising to fix this for a while and thus far and we've seen nothing. Personally I'd like to see them keep releasing new tables at the rate they've been doing thus far, however if they're going to keep putting out buggy tables, they need to be vigilant about fixing them. This is something they were better about a few months ago, that has tapered off over time. Of late, unfortunately, it's pretty difficult to get a response out of them on the forums.

Sean · Jun 21, 2012

Actually they've been chiming in a lot in the past few days, even on this very topic.

I've never had a problem with the way this table plays, but it seems they are able to fix bugs and release new stuff at the same time, so I'm not feeling an either/or situation exists. I for one am satisfied knowing the table will be fixed in the next update and that people who cannot wait are able to get the fix a lot sooner.

Jeff Strong · Jun 21, 2012

Yeah, they've actually increased communication on the forums quite a bit lately.

Abdullah786 · Jun 23, 2012

Definitely too far apart... This table I have to tilt at least 50% of shots.. Very frustrating at times, not sure if I'll ever beat "battle for the kingdom" because of this. I can have all goals except for trolls and on first ball and then 1,2,3 drained balls back to back...

Metalzoic · Jun 24, 2012

David Smith said:
But it's such a small detail, and MM plays perfectly fine as it is now. I'd much rather Farsight spent their time fixing real bugs or working on new tables.

Small detail?
When it actually physically changes the way the table plays I wouldn't call it small.

phreaker47 · Jul 15, 2012

I'm trying to like this table, but it's so frustrating to see a ball go partway up the left peasant revolt ramp, and as it comes down you know there's about an 80% or more chance it's going to drain. Frustrating. Also, sometimes a ball will fly so rapidly through a side return lane, it can literally go right past the flipper and drain because the speed catches you by surprise (in multiball, mostly).

Not complaining about the emulation, just my gripes about inherent things on this table.

VMethos · Jul 15, 2012

If you see the ball is going to be returning down the peasant ramp, you can nudge the table to the right while the ball is rolling back down along the left edge of the ramp. This will send the ball on a trajectory to the right of the center drain which will allow you to save it with the right flipper. Don't watch and pray as the ball is on a predictable path to doom... you can save it!

Richard B · Jul 15, 2012

VMethos said:
If you see the ball is going to be returning down the peasant ramp, you can nudge the table to the right while the ball is rolling back down along the left edge of the ramp. This will send the ball on a trajectory to the right of the center drain which will allow you to save it with the right flipper. Don't watch and pray as the ball is on a predictable path to doom... you can save it!

You shouldn't have to though. This table was meticulously designed to prevent cheap drains. If two tables a month is causing them to cut corners and make major mistakes like this, maybe it should be two every other month.

Crush3d_Turtle · Jul 15, 2012

Richard B said:
You shouldn't have to though. This table was meticulously designed to prevent cheap drains. If two tables a month is causing them to cut corners and make major mistakes like this, maybe it should be two every other month.

I would be perfectly fine with this arrangement. It would certainly be much better than the state the product is delivered in now.

Jim O'Brien · Jul 15, 2012

Richard B said:
You shouldn't have to though. This table was meticulously designed to prevent cheap drains. If two tables a month is causing them to cut corners and make major mistakes like this, maybe it should be two every other month.

It's that way on PS3 so far, I know they are using the model from previous releases though. Check out pics at ipdb.org and compare it to Pinball Arcade's Medieval Madness don't go by the flyers. There is a nice shot of the lower playfield and the big difference I see is the position of the right flipper.

http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=4032&picno=7825

Supermans · Jul 16, 2012

Jeff Strong said:
Yeah, Farsight's goal is replicate the precise dimensions of the real machine, so it needs to be fixed.

Agreed, the gap needs to be fixed. Even though I can still play it just fine.

superballs · Aug 4, 2012

Reviving an old thread but I must chime in...just must.

iPhone > please fix the gap as soon as possible, center drain monster as the nudge is clumsy on the mobile platforms.

XBOX360 > I still would recommend fixing it but it's less of a big deal as far as how fun the table is. I find the consoles to have much more controllable nudging and in my experience on the consoles, it's not as much of a problem. Yes it's not accurate and that in and of itself IS the biggest problem with it. Farsight's mission statement dictates that it be fixed and could be a potential credibility issue to the purists. Personally, the product is more than worth the 3.50$ CAD i spent on it and is the best version I've ever played.

Fungi · Aug 4, 2012

superballs said:
Reviving an old thread but I must chime in...just must.

iPhone > please fix the gap as soon as possible, center drain monster as the nudge is clumsy on the mobile platforms.

XBOX360 > I still would recommend fixing it but it's less of a big deal as far as how fun the table is. I find the consoles to have much more controllable nudging and in my experience on the consoles, it's not as much of a problem. Yes it's not accurate and that in and of itself IS the biggest problem with it. Farsight's mission statement dictates that it be fixed and could be a potential credibility issue to the purists. Personally, the product is more than worth the 3.50$ CAD i spent on it and is the best version I've ever played.

Good news, on iOS, the gap has been fixed. You have to redownload the table. Bad news, all of the lights on the table stopped working.

superballs · Aug 4, 2012

Fungi said:
Good news, on iOS, the gap has been fixed. You have to redownload the table. Bad news, all of the lights on the table stopped working.

Shaneus · Aug 11, 2012

Fungi said:
Good news, on iOS, the gap has been fixed. You have to redownload the table. Bad news, all of the lights on the table stopped working.

When did it actually get fixed? I don't remember having to re-download any other tables when they updated for CFTBL and BK.

superballs · Aug 11, 2012

I updated and didn't have to redownload the table. Though it does seem to play a lot differently, my scores actually skyrocketed...the gap still looks big though, but I wasn't really paying that much attention

FarSight, please don't fix the MM flipper gap "problem"

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