Search titles only
By:
Home
Forums
New posts
Search forums
Articles
New articles
New comments
Search articles
Pinball DB
Pinball Tables
Pinball Games
What's new
New posts
New articles
New profile posts
New article comments
Latest activity
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Search forums
Menu
Log in
Register
Navigation
Install the app
Install
More options
Contact us
Close Menu
Welcome Back to Digital Pinball Fans -
please read this first
For latest updates, follow Digital Pinball Fans on
Facebook
and
Twitter
Home
Forums
Farsight Studios
The Pinball Arcade / Farsight Studios
New way to fund virtual pinballs
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="tripletopper" data-source="post: 276180" data-attributes="member: 7415"><p>Advertisements: They are either absolutely destructive or a godsend. For the tables you play the most, it would be better to pay a few bucks for your favorites and save the ad time. For all the rest ad-based games would be smarter. Sega did that with Sega Forever, either watch ad breaks at times that won't interrupt play, like after a life or level, or some other logical relax point, or pay for the license at any time if you want to stop ads, or try the game a couple times, say the game isn't for you and the makers make a few extra cents on your sampling.</p><p></p><p>It's the opposite of TV advertising. In TV advertising, you see the hero in peril or see a team fall far behind and want to see the conclusion and then commercials hold your interested when you want to get back to the game, in passive media, it builds up drama.</p><p></p><p>But advertising has never really been tried in mainstream games, except for permanent baked in ads that's considererd part of the content, like Budweiser Tapper.</p><p></p><p>if you follow the TV model and place the ad at the most tense point where, in the case of pinball, you have a couple of seconds to hit a shot, and, if an ad interrupts it, everyone would be so mad, and rightly so, that their concentration was broken in mid shot, and it would be seen as cheap, and make you so frustrated that you never want to play again. It's one thing to interrpt it for an irresistable bathroom urge, you lose track of the current situation. You'll have to remember the speed and direction the ball was going in to pre-meditate an action, if you've memorized it. Otherwise you're at the mercy of reaction, and with LCD TV having a typical input lag of 33 ms, until you buy a specific low-lag monitor is hard to react to, you have to resign yourself to the fact that you probably lost a life.. The die hards probably have a low ping monitor, the casuals probably would not.</p><p></p><p>The game model is to introduce the the ad in a natural resting point. You don't have to think about yourt next move on a nervous hairtrigger. Sit back, celebrate the level beat, or mourn the lost life, for 30 seconds, and then go on. The smartest time to interrupt games for ads is when you have recenter your mind. So a level break, or a life break would be the perfect time. But limit to one 30 second commercial every 5 minutes at the worst.</p><p></p><p>It's bad enough to blame your bladder, but if the flow was interrupted because of an ad, you would create a "Frack this!" reaction and never turn on the game again. And the ads wouldn't be watched which doesn't help the gamer, doesn't help the advertiser, doesn't help Farsight, and doesn't help other monied interests in the table.</p><p></p><p>I don't have a cell phone, but I imagine the reason why Sega Forever failed on cell phones was not becuase of the choice of an ad-free license or adverware. It failed because no one wants to control character with a touchscreen on games meant to be controller with a joystick and 3-6 buttons. I bet you the Sega Forever concept would have succeeded better in the home console market where you have real controllers. The concept of giving people choice to play an advergame or buy a license didn't work, because after one cell phone play, you didn't want to play it again, so they made a penny to a dime times the number of Sega fans times the number of times it takes to realize that without the right controls, it sucks.</p><p></p><p>Unfortunately Microsoft and Sony are too closed minded to realize that money is money, and it doesn't matter whether it's off license sales or advertising. They make their percentage whether it's licensing of advertising. They sold the Sega Genesis disc for those consoles. The only reason I bought that disc was for online play, but that's a separate issue.</p><p></p><p>I can understand Nintendo's reluctance to use ads. They got an image to protect with Mario and friends. You don't want to see an ad for snuggle clothing or a few bad words or gory violence on a E rated game. Nintendo should ban ads for content that is less family friendly than the game's content suggests. </p><p></p><p>Likewise I doubt if Nintendo would want to advertise in their ads a game for PS4 and Xbox 1, unless they have a generic claim saying "Check your local game store or your system's ROM store to see if you can buy Game X", kind of like how they say "check local listing for channel and times" for shows not on their family of networks. And yes Cable/Satellite has ads for shows not on even their FAMILY of networks, like an ABC commercial on USA, an NBC/Universal network. That also opens it up to to coming to Nintendo systems if that ad campaign boosted sales.</p><p></p><p>But I've seen websites like GreaatDayGames.com which gives out both unlimited free plays and random prize drawing which depend on raffle tickets earned in said games (to be legal, you can't buy them, only earn them through play, but tend to earn more through skillful play), and they show one 30 second video ad every "natural break of the game, at least 5 minutes apart" 1 30-second commercial within 5 minutes of content is a 12:1 content to commercial ratio, where broadcast TV is close to 2:1 and basic cable is 2.5:1. Broadcasts don't ask for a dime from customers, and they stay in business. They got their start as a skill gaming contest, but when interstate internet skill gaming became illegal unless it contained NO random elements, they found they mode more money by offering them for free, paying some $50 prizes to a few "weighted random" raffles, placing ads to pay for that and make money, and not having to spend money on lawyers making sure they're legal with less sure footing. And they own no licenses for any popular stuff. All their stuff is in-house.</p><p></p><p>Imagine if they had stuff people were actually culturally aware of. They'd be even more popular, but then they have to discuss ad splits with other companies. People put up with 2:1 content-to-commercila ratios on TV, and advertising is less impactful due to time shifting and commercial skipping.</p><p></p><p>But video games have the advantage of be REQUIRED to be played live in order to be effective. There's no time shifting. There's no skipping commercials. That's why game companies make more money with less proportionate ad time, while broadcasters have to collect rebroadcast fees to pay for skipped commercials on Tivos.</p><p></p><p>If you don't like the idea of having ads in the canonical games, think of it as having commercials in free fully-functional demos of the game, and then you buy the game to skip the ads if you think you'll like it enough where you save time.</p><p></p><p>Some people have more money than time, so spending 30 seconds on an ad who makes a thousand dollars a minute loses $500 of theoretical income per commercial, so a $5 license would be valuable. Likewise, especially on digital titles, when you have to commit money, and you have more time than money, like me, on Social Security disability, you either have to wait for sales, or only buy the games you're really interested in. Depending on what else I have to buy, $30 for 10 tables at once seems like a lot when you make the minimum Social Security income of less than $1000/month and pay quite a bit of that towards rent in your parents' house.</p><p></p><p>I will probably buy one Gottlieb pack a month because $10 for 5-10 tables is a good deal, being $2 or less a table, and less commitment on one transaction. I already own Stern on optical disc and game wafer format for the One and Switch, which I found for $15 each for 15 tables, one of those being a new purchase.</p><p></p><p>But if Williams and Bally want a bigger, more constant stream of income, instead of day-one highs and then the money-drug crash of money withdrawl, if you make yourselves and Bally and Williams so much a month constantly, maybe it's worth their while if you can promise them a "job-like income stream" for no work except allowing you to use their tables, instead of "a wad of cash".</p><p></p><p>If I were a game maker, I'd personally consider the ad route on major consoles for all the reasons stated. I believe in a steady income while people try to win Xbox Points and/or raffle tickets for prizes. The more they play the more you earn.</p><p></p><p>You just have to ask yourself, do you want your games actually played and make more money when playing them more, or money for adding your game just ticked off in a collection? If you believe in the replayability of your tables, then the ad option makes more sense. If you want to wow them on day one, and then hope word of mouth doesn't kill sales on day 2, go with the pay license. But more people would play a free game because it's free than people would stay away because it's got ads. And if you hate ads, there's the pay license for those who want to go that route. The question is do you believe in the replayability of your tables?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tripletopper, post: 276180, member: 7415"] Advertisements: They are either absolutely destructive or a godsend. For the tables you play the most, it would be better to pay a few bucks for your favorites and save the ad time. For all the rest ad-based games would be smarter. Sega did that with Sega Forever, either watch ad breaks at times that won't interrupt play, like after a life or level, or some other logical relax point, or pay for the license at any time if you want to stop ads, or try the game a couple times, say the game isn't for you and the makers make a few extra cents on your sampling. It's the opposite of TV advertising. In TV advertising, you see the hero in peril or see a team fall far behind and want to see the conclusion and then commercials hold your interested when you want to get back to the game, in passive media, it builds up drama. But advertising has never really been tried in mainstream games, except for permanent baked in ads that's considererd part of the content, like Budweiser Tapper. if you follow the TV model and place the ad at the most tense point where, in the case of pinball, you have a couple of seconds to hit a shot, and, if an ad interrupts it, everyone would be so mad, and rightly so, that their concentration was broken in mid shot, and it would be seen as cheap, and make you so frustrated that you never want to play again. It's one thing to interrpt it for an irresistable bathroom urge, you lose track of the current situation. You'll have to remember the speed and direction the ball was going in to pre-meditate an action, if you've memorized it. Otherwise you're at the mercy of reaction, and with LCD TV having a typical input lag of 33 ms, until you buy a specific low-lag monitor is hard to react to, you have to resign yourself to the fact that you probably lost a life.. The die hards probably have a low ping monitor, the casuals probably would not. The game model is to introduce the the ad in a natural resting point. You don't have to think about yourt next move on a nervous hairtrigger. Sit back, celebrate the level beat, or mourn the lost life, for 30 seconds, and then go on. The smartest time to interrupt games for ads is when you have recenter your mind. So a level break, or a life break would be the perfect time. But limit to one 30 second commercial every 5 minutes at the worst. It's bad enough to blame your bladder, but if the flow was interrupted because of an ad, you would create a "Frack this!" reaction and never turn on the game again. And the ads wouldn't be watched which doesn't help the gamer, doesn't help the advertiser, doesn't help Farsight, and doesn't help other monied interests in the table. I don't have a cell phone, but I imagine the reason why Sega Forever failed on cell phones was not becuase of the choice of an ad-free license or adverware. It failed because no one wants to control character with a touchscreen on games meant to be controller with a joystick and 3-6 buttons. I bet you the Sega Forever concept would have succeeded better in the home console market where you have real controllers. The concept of giving people choice to play an advergame or buy a license didn't work, because after one cell phone play, you didn't want to play it again, so they made a penny to a dime times the number of Sega fans times the number of times it takes to realize that without the right controls, it sucks. Unfortunately Microsoft and Sony are too closed minded to realize that money is money, and it doesn't matter whether it's off license sales or advertising. They make their percentage whether it's licensing of advertising. They sold the Sega Genesis disc for those consoles. The only reason I bought that disc was for online play, but that's a separate issue. I can understand Nintendo's reluctance to use ads. They got an image to protect with Mario and friends. You don't want to see an ad for snuggle clothing or a few bad words or gory violence on a E rated game. Nintendo should ban ads for content that is less family friendly than the game's content suggests. Likewise I doubt if Nintendo would want to advertise in their ads a game for PS4 and Xbox 1, unless they have a generic claim saying "Check your local game store or your system's ROM store to see if you can buy Game X", kind of like how they say "check local listing for channel and times" for shows not on their family of networks. And yes Cable/Satellite has ads for shows not on even their FAMILY of networks, like an ABC commercial on USA, an NBC/Universal network. That also opens it up to to coming to Nintendo systems if that ad campaign boosted sales. But I've seen websites like GreaatDayGames.com which gives out both unlimited free plays and random prize drawing which depend on raffle tickets earned in said games (to be legal, you can't buy them, only earn them through play, but tend to earn more through skillful play), and they show one 30 second video ad every "natural break of the game, at least 5 minutes apart" 1 30-second commercial within 5 minutes of content is a 12:1 content to commercial ratio, where broadcast TV is close to 2:1 and basic cable is 2.5:1. Broadcasts don't ask for a dime from customers, and they stay in business. They got their start as a skill gaming contest, but when interstate internet skill gaming became illegal unless it contained NO random elements, they found they mode more money by offering them for free, paying some $50 prizes to a few "weighted random" raffles, placing ads to pay for that and make money, and not having to spend money on lawyers making sure they're legal with less sure footing. And they own no licenses for any popular stuff. All their stuff is in-house. Imagine if they had stuff people were actually culturally aware of. They'd be even more popular, but then they have to discuss ad splits with other companies. People put up with 2:1 content-to-commercila ratios on TV, and advertising is less impactful due to time shifting and commercial skipping. But video games have the advantage of be REQUIRED to be played live in order to be effective. There's no time shifting. There's no skipping commercials. That's why game companies make more money with less proportionate ad time, while broadcasters have to collect rebroadcast fees to pay for skipped commercials on Tivos. If you don't like the idea of having ads in the canonical games, think of it as having commercials in free fully-functional demos of the game, and then you buy the game to skip the ads if you think you'll like it enough where you save time. Some people have more money than time, so spending 30 seconds on an ad who makes a thousand dollars a minute loses $500 of theoretical income per commercial, so a $5 license would be valuable. Likewise, especially on digital titles, when you have to commit money, and you have more time than money, like me, on Social Security disability, you either have to wait for sales, or only buy the games you're really interested in. Depending on what else I have to buy, $30 for 10 tables at once seems like a lot when you make the minimum Social Security income of less than $1000/month and pay quite a bit of that towards rent in your parents' house. I will probably buy one Gottlieb pack a month because $10 for 5-10 tables is a good deal, being $2 or less a table, and less commitment on one transaction. I already own Stern on optical disc and game wafer format for the One and Switch, which I found for $15 each for 15 tables, one of those being a new purchase. But if Williams and Bally want a bigger, more constant stream of income, instead of day-one highs and then the money-drug crash of money withdrawl, if you make yourselves and Bally and Williams so much a month constantly, maybe it's worth their while if you can promise them a "job-like income stream" for no work except allowing you to use their tables, instead of "a wad of cash". If I were a game maker, I'd personally consider the ad route on major consoles for all the reasons stated. I believe in a steady income while people try to win Xbox Points and/or raffle tickets for prizes. The more they play the more you earn. You just have to ask yourself, do you want your games actually played and make more money when playing them more, or money for adding your game just ticked off in a collection? If you believe in the replayability of your tables, then the ad option makes more sense. If you want to wow them on day one, and then hope word of mouth doesn't kill sales on day 2, go with the pay license. But more people would play a free game because it's free than people would stay away because it's got ads. And if you hate ads, there's the pay license for those who want to go that route. The question is do you believe in the replayability of your tables? [/QUOTE]
Verification
Post reply
Members online
No members online now.
Latest posts
Farsight Studios closing?
Latest: Nightwing
Yesterday at 2:45 AM
The Pinball Arcade / Farsight Studios
O
Sale speculation thread
Latest: oqvist
May 27, 2024
Pinball FX (4)
O
Anyone still playing?
Latest: oqvist
May 26, 2024
The Pinball Arcade / Farsight Studios
Home
Forums
Farsight Studios
The Pinball Arcade / Farsight Studios
New way to fund virtual pinballs
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top