Flipper control and advanced skills

[Cloda]

I posted this on the official Zen Forum but thought that the players on this forum that generally have more real table experience might have something more to add.

After watching a few PAPA tutorials and skills videos, I thought I'll give the tricks a go in the game. I specifically looked at the Theatre of Magic tutorial in anticipation of the table being released and the point was made (21m15) that it is essential to be able to do a live catch on the right flipper if you want to get anywhere on the table. Well, for the last couple of days, I have been sacrificing playing decent games to rather see if I can get some of these skills down playing Williams tables on Classic Arcade physics. I haven't been able to do one live catch (mostly trying on Attack from Mars when the ball comes out of the Stroke of luck hole) and something seems odd with drop catches. In the Attack from Mars tutorial video, Bowen pulls both skills of the whole time as well as many other i.e. flick pass (my controller is not sensitive enough to do it). The odd thing I noticed in the game is that if you do a drop catch, you do prevent the ball from bouncing, but rather than it first rolling up the flipper a bit like in this Drop Catch video, the ball immediately rolls down towards the middle as in this video. The first attempt is the best I have had so far and the second is what usually happens:

.

Compared to what should happen as in this video (1min15).

It is basically then not worthwhile to do as it is too risky and doesn't really give you an advantage and a dead bounce ends up being more rewarding.

What is your experience with these and other advanced skills in the game? Is it possible to do them and do they work like on a real table? I have been watching quite a few gameplay videos since the Williams tables has been released and I don't see these skills being pulled off even by players adept at the game (e.g. LUP's club guys). If anybody has any video evidence of these skills working in the game (other than the pre-release video from Zen), please share them.

 

[crazyflipperfingers]

I posted this on the official Zen Forum but thought that the players on this forum that generally have more real table experience might have something more to add.

I haven't been able to do one live catch (mostly trying on Attack from Mars when the ball comes out of the Stroke of luck hole) and something seems odd with drop catches. In the Attack from Mars tutorial video, Bowen pulls both skills of the whole time as well as many other i.e. flick pass (my controller is not sensitive enough to do it).

What is your experience with these and other advanced skills in the game? Is it possible to do them and do they work like on a real table?

I was very excited when I saw the video they put out prior to the official release of Williams where they showed all the flipper "tricks" but, like you, I've found that the reality is really lacking.

It IS possible to do live catches. I've done it a few times but it definitely does not seem like real life. IRL, I am able to pull of live catches in about a third of my attempts. Let me clarify though. Normally a successful live catch will deaden the momentum of the ball enough that you can get a trap on the flipper. Most of the time though, the ball will bounce a little. If you watch "skills" videos, they always show a live catch where the ball "magically" stops completely dead on the flipper. It's not usually that graceful. In FX3, like I said, I've done a few (let me stress, very few) live catches, but they've always been of the "magic stop" type. It seems as though you either get the full stop or nothing. Look at Fish Tales, off the plunge that ball will bounce half way up the table on a botched live catch off of the left flipper. In general, the ball speeds seem a bit fast, and the flippers seem way too bouncy to do live catches.

Drop catches are a different story. I've never pulled off a drop catch in Classic Single Player mode. I have done loop passes, where you drop the flipper as the ball hits it after a complete orbit and it takes some of the momentum off of the ball as it bounces to the other flipper, like in Attack From Mars or Medieval Madness, but never a drop catch. I'm not sure if it's possible. However, in Single Player mode (Zen physics) I HAVE seen drop catches. I was not trying for them on purpose, but during multiball in Junkyard, I've done them "accidentally". I've seen that happen several times. My guess is, again, that in Classic Single Player the flippers are just too bouncy, but in regular Single Player they are dead enough to allow it to happen. I need to purchase the newer packs and experiment some more, but the drop catches aren't happening for me at all with what I've got.

Tip passes (flick passes, whatever) may be possible, but I haven't pulled them off. Like you said, I have a feeling It might just be down to my controller though. I'm using the bumpers on an Xbox 360 controller. If I do it just right, I can see partial flips of the flipper, but during play when I have a ball rolling towards the end of the flipper, I'm never able to just do a soft flick to get it over to the other flipper (try this off the plunge on Junkyard, ain't happening for me). Again, seems possible, but I can't do it and it might just be down to the controller. Does anyone have a suggestion of a better controller to use where this works?

Finally, cradle separations. This is the one flipper skill where I'm pretty happy with Zen's implementation. Cradle separations completely sucked in TPA. You would always get a full strength flip and the balls would all go to hell. In FX3 they work pretty good. This is another reason I believe that tip passes might be achievable.

I really hope Zen has another go at a flipper physics retune. To be fair, physics are MUCH better than TPA and I'm thankful for that, but I'm going to keep offering constructive criticism in the hope that they eventually perfect them.

 

[MBeeching]

Perhaps I'm imagining things but I feel progress has been made in this area. ToM appears to have refined physics with realistic opportunities to take some momentum out of the ball, I much prefer it and would like to see it applied to previous tables (Classic: Arcade/Tournament).

 

[Cloda]

I was very excited when I saw the video they put out prior to the official release of Williams where they showed all the flipper "tricks" but, like you, I've found that the reality is really lacking...

Thanks for the reply. It is a pity we can't pull these tricks off like they did in the video. I built my own controller box and first had American style arcade buttons for my flipper buttons but realised that they are less sensitive than my Xbox One controller. I then orderer Japanese style Sanwa buttons and they are much more sensitive and I can now see that I can probably do tip passes with practice as well as cradle separation. I have my doubts about the live and drop catches but unfortunately the new update on Mac made Zen Pinball 2 almost unplayable due to jerky ball movement so I'll have to wait for them to fix it before I can play and test it again.

 

[Cloda]

Perhaps I'm imagining things but I feel progress has been made in this area. ToM appears to have refined physics with realistic opportunities to take some momentum out of the ball, I much prefer it and would like to see it applied to previous tables (Classic: Arcade/Tournament).

That is great to hear. I'll definitely try it out as soon as it is fixed on Mac.