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Farsight Studios
The Pinball Arcade / Farsight Studios
Platform Specific
Playstation 3
Flipper lag theory
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<blockquote data-quote="smbhax" data-source="post: 47943" data-attributes="member: 396"><p>The lowering to 720p thing has to do with a specific frame delay induced by the game itself within the PS3 hardware, not the TV. That is to allow for post-input lighting calculations at 1080p, as confirmed in SYT's interview. That was the one definite source of "lag," although apparently only at 1080p after recent updates.</p><p></p><p>The answer in the interview also mentions a "second and a half" delay that they've seen occur on certain TVs--if you're getting that, you'd definitely know it as the game would be effectively unplayable. That would be a separate, second type of "lag," and that one would be due to a misconfigured TV.</p><p></p><p>Then there's the certain lack of "crispness" when comparing the responsiveness of the flippers in TPA vs, say, the same tables in FarSight's earlier "Pinball Hall of Fame: The Williams Collection" game on PS3. That would be a third type of lag.</p><p></p><p>I'm not sure of people have intended to blame this third type of lag on TVs, but I think it's far more likely to be something between, again, the software and the game console--some physics issue, like the ball-through-the-flipper thing. It was, I think, a FarSight person who mentioned something on this board a month or two ago indicating that the physics calculations don't update as quickly as the visible screen display--physics being updated at 30 fps while the rendering runs at 60 fps, say; that's something pretty commonly done in games when you need to save processing power for other calculations--which they have obviously needed to do to pull off their lighting stuff, for instance. If that's what this remaining "lack of crispness" lag is, then it's something they could, theoretically, improve with further optimization of the game software.</p><p></p><p>We can also hope that it *was* related to whatever got fixed for the through-the-flipper bug <a href="http://digitalpinballfans.com/showthread.php/2903-Ball-through-flippers-bug-is-now-fixed" target="_blank">a more recent FarSight post</a> said has been fixed; out-of-sync rendering and physics calculations *can* cause stuff to go through things, as I found first-hand in other games years ago, when I was a game tester. Although, the way Mike R, phrased it, it sounds like this was a fix for a very specific glitch, and not an overall optimization. I guess we'll know whenever the through-the-flipper fix makes its way to a PSN update--hopefully in the next month or two.</p><p></p><p>~~~~</p><p></p><p>Hm, also, if a delay was in your TV, and you had separate sound and video outs from your PS3, then I would think that not only the flippers but also the sound would be out of sync with the screen--actions would occur onscreen *after* their corresponding sound effect. That would be interesting. I have separate sound and video outs on mine (sound via component, video via HDMI), and haven't noticed them being out of sync with each other at all.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="smbhax, post: 47943, member: 396"] The lowering to 720p thing has to do with a specific frame delay induced by the game itself within the PS3 hardware, not the TV. That is to allow for post-input lighting calculations at 1080p, as confirmed in SYT's interview. That was the one definite source of "lag," although apparently only at 1080p after recent updates. The answer in the interview also mentions a "second and a half" delay that they've seen occur on certain TVs--if you're getting that, you'd definitely know it as the game would be effectively unplayable. That would be a separate, second type of "lag," and that one would be due to a misconfigured TV. Then there's the certain lack of "crispness" when comparing the responsiveness of the flippers in TPA vs, say, the same tables in FarSight's earlier "Pinball Hall of Fame: The Williams Collection" game on PS3. That would be a third type of lag. I'm not sure of people have intended to blame this third type of lag on TVs, but I think it's far more likely to be something between, again, the software and the game console--some physics issue, like the ball-through-the-flipper thing. It was, I think, a FarSight person who mentioned something on this board a month or two ago indicating that the physics calculations don't update as quickly as the visible screen display--physics being updated at 30 fps while the rendering runs at 60 fps, say; that's something pretty commonly done in games when you need to save processing power for other calculations--which they have obviously needed to do to pull off their lighting stuff, for instance. If that's what this remaining "lack of crispness" lag is, then it's something they could, theoretically, improve with further optimization of the game software. We can also hope that it *was* related to whatever got fixed for the through-the-flipper bug [url=http://digitalpinballfans.com/showthread.php/2903-Ball-through-flippers-bug-is-now-fixed]a more recent FarSight post[/url] said has been fixed; out-of-sync rendering and physics calculations *can* cause stuff to go through things, as I found first-hand in other games years ago, when I was a game tester. Although, the way Mike R, phrased it, it sounds like this was a fix for a very specific glitch, and not an overall optimization. I guess we'll know whenever the through-the-flipper fix makes its way to a PSN update--hopefully in the next month or two. ~~~~ Hm, also, if a delay was in your TV, and you had separate sound and video outs from your PS3, then I would think that not only the flippers but also the sound would be out of sync with the screen--actions would occur onscreen *after* their corresponding sound effect. That would be interesting. I have separate sound and video outs on mine (sound via component, video via HDMI), and haven't noticed them being out of sync with each other at all. [/QUOTE]
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The Pinball Arcade / Farsight Studios
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Farsight Studios
The Pinball Arcade / Farsight Studios
Platform Specific
Playstation 3
Flipper lag theory
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