How does Phantom Flip work? (General MB question)

Shaneus

New member
Mar 26, 2012
1,221
0
Hey guys,

I'm not at all familiar with the MB table IRL so forgive me if it's a little more obvious, but I have no idea how to enable PF in MB. From what I can tell it's enabled via the left inlane, but does it take several shots for you? Does it only take one? Can you tell when it's enabled/disabled?

I know how to light it, but that's about it... and the rulesheets are pretty scant on describing what it actually is (other than that it's the table "taking" shots for you... doesn't describe anything else about it).

Cheers!
 

Kevlar

New member
Feb 20, 2012
2,631
0
I ' let ' PF work last night for the first time, it seems to be a pretty pointless feature to me. Obviously you know how to enable it, the light in the inlane shows which inlane its active in and can be changed by flipping, each flip swaps it back and forth. If its lit in the inlane as the ball rolls down it the flipper will activate automatically, why you would want it to I don't know, you would flip it yourself at that point anyway. If it was something in the outlane I could understand it but as it is it seems pointless. I guess on the rare occaision a fastball shoots down there when your not paying attention AND PF is lit in that lane it could save you a drain.
 

David Smith

New member
Feb 28, 2012
127
0
Phantom Flip can be pretty useful. If it's lit on the inlane, the game will pick the "best" shot to make and take the shot automatically. It can be a pretty good shot too; I've seen it combo the left and right ramps consecutively. The only time you really want to avoid it is when Frankenstein Multiball is lit but you *don't* want to start it yet; PF has a habit of going for that shot.
 

Fungi

Active member
Feb 20, 2012
4,888
2
I was always afraid to try it. It's just not in me to not touch a flipper when I see a ball leisurely rolling down an inlane. Guess I'll try it now.
 

Shaneus

New member
Mar 26, 2012
1,221
0
Great, thanks! Is that the same as how Thing Flips works in TAF?

Btw I'd love to know it works in PA compared to the actual table that "learns" the best shots, but I'm equally as happy for that to remain a mystery as I'm sure the explanation would go well over my head ;)
 

Fuseball

New member
May 26, 2012
484
0
It *should* work exactly the same as the actual table as it is all handled by the emulated code. :)

There's an eddy sensor under the playfield right above each flipper. This detects the metal ball. I assume that the game code calculates the speed of the ball based upon the time between the inlane switch being triggered and eddy sensor being triggered. I think it might even adjust the calculation based on how inaccurate the shot was compared to where it was aiming for. I seem to recall that it got more accurate the more I played the game.

It's all still pretty mysterious to me anyway!
 

Jake Lopez

FarSight Employee
Jun 21, 2012
37
0
The Phantom Flip is supposed to 'learn' how the player shoots and where the best shot is supposed to be. For example, the longer you play on the table, the more info the ROM picks up and remembers so the PF shots will be more accurate as time goes on. We've tried in the past to find a way for the PF to remember every time you restart or finish a game but it's not possible. Works just like the real table
 

Sean DonCarlos

Moderator
Staff member
Mar 17, 2012
4,293
0
The Phantom Flip is supposed to 'learn' how the player shoots and where the best shot is supposed to be. For example, the longer you play on the table, the more info the ROM picks up and remembers so the PF shots will be more accurate as time goes on. We've tried in the past to find a way for the PF to remember every time you restart or finish a game but it's not possible. Works just like the real table
Also, on the real table, the quality of the Phantom Flip shots is largely determined by the quality of the players' shots, because the table "watches" what you do and tries to mimic it. For example, the Monster Bash on location here has a lot of enthusiastic but not very skilled players (I probably fall into this category myself!) and so it has "learned" the shots incorrectly and is not very accurate.

At any rate, the Phantom Flip in TPA seems to be pretty accurate out of the gate; I personally let it take its shots unless the Frankenstein ramp is open and I'm not ready to start multiball yet.
 

FurVid

New member
Feb 20, 2012
106
0
When the flippers move, how many intermediate steps do they go through, and are there millisecond gaps between those steps? Almost every session I feel like the ball might've moved through a flipper when I miss a slap save. In some other cases, it seems like it shouldn't even be possible to miss - yesterday I had the ball come down fast from the right side of the wolfman orbit and though it seemed like it was headed right for the sweet spot on the right flipper, I somehow managed to miss it.
 

jaredmorgs

Moderator
Staff member
May 8, 2012
4,334
3
http://www.thepaisleys.com/PaisleyPinball/Fixes/phantom_flip.htm explains the real-life theory of operation. Phantom Flip works with the wireform in-lane switch detecting the start of the phantom flip sequence, and optical sensor (opto) hidden under the slingshot, and the eddy sensor (basically a resistor) completing the shot based on the MPU calculations. The opto and eddy sensor are the keys to the mechanical element of Phantom Flip.
 

neglectoid

New member
Sep 27, 2012
845
0
on the pinball arcade i use the phantom flip mostly fom the left flipper to hit the scoop (extra ball, dracula, multiball(s) mummy) when its lit.
it has a better chance of hitting that shot than i do.
or sometimes i save them up for the bride. fun fun fun.
 

The-Noid

New member
Oct 18, 2012
11
0
Phantom Flip works about 50% on a real table. The easy way is to disable it in the service menu but many will look at this as cheating.

On a real table Phantom Flip causes more problems than it fixed. It is actually supposed to learn how to make shots but over a long period of time there is simply too much going on.

TAF and thing are dropped in at a much slower rate than Phantom Flip and the target is stationary. Success rate for Thing is much higher.
 

neglectoid

New member
Sep 27, 2012
845
0
or sometimes i save them up for the bride. fun fun fun.

my last ps3 finally gave out a few months ago. i have since then acquired a new ps3. i noticed right away that the phantom flip wasn't shooting with as much near accuracy.

meh...i still use it... fun fun fun.
 

Zaphod77

Active member
Feb 14, 2013
1,310
1
Seems a bit inaccurate compared to real life.

on most machines on location phantom flip knows how to hit the frankenstein ramp when it wants to. doesn't seem so good at it on TPA.

It learns by watching successful shots, and gathering timing info about them. ramp feeds are the most reliable, so phantom flips tends to work better after a ramp shot.

the better the players are the faster phantom flips will learn. if the players all suck it doesn't have good data to start with, and takes longer to learn to play. if it doesn't have enough confidence, it just won't light until it thinks it has a decent chance of making the shot it wants, so i think TPA is seeding phantom flips with some initial data.
 

Worf

New member
Aug 12, 2012
726
0
Doesn't help that I don't think TPA saves the phantom flip data properly so every time you quit the table, it may not save the updated flip data to the virtual NVRAM.
 
Top