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Farsight Studios
The Pinball Arcade / Farsight Studios
Platform Specific
Playstation 4
Leaderboards NEED to be wiped on PS4 & other platforms possibly...
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<blockquote data-quote="The-Man-In-Black" data-source="post: 275467" data-attributes="member: 7112"><p>I've been playing pinball for about 40 years, and own every table on TPA, Zen Pinball, the original Pinball HOF, etc. While I don't have every trophy out there because some of the tables are out of my skill range, I have a vast majority of them. I know how pinball works, and I know how emulation works. </p><p></p><p><Bunch of stuff snipped></p><p></p><p>TL;Dr version is that they were using a bunch of exploits that existed due to imperfect emulation of the tables. The exploits have since been patched out. I hesitate to call their scores "legitimate", as they were exploiting bugs and imperfections in the game emulation, but at the same time, they definitely weren't cheating either. Keep in mind that in most other places, scores earned under these conditions would not be considered legitimate. Even if you do want to consider the scores fully legitimate (and in that case, we'll have to agree to disagree), they still should be removed from the leaderboards as the scores were earned at a time when certain game bugs and imperfections still existed in the game's code, and the table physics was different. Since the bugs have been largely worked out and the table physics has changed, the scores should still be removed for those reasons alone. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Ok, I could see that argument. I don't notice enough of a difference to matter, but I'll concede and leave that opinion up to people who are far more skilled than myself. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Then in those cases, move them into their own "Hall of Fame" section (pun semi-intended). Give them a "Special Thanks" leaderboard or mention them in the credits. I will agree if they voluntarily put that much work into helping Farsight improve the game over the years and really do have that much skill (which I don't question), they deserve it. </p><p></p><p>Giving them their own "Special Thanks" leaderboard would serve several purposes.</p><p></p><p>1) It would allow Farsight to recognize their accomplishments both in their skill at pinball and their help improving the game. </p><p>2) It would get scores that are no longer achievable due to the current state of the game off the regular leaderboards and put everyone back on an even footing.</p><p>3) It would mean that the current crop of top scores can be viewed in their proper context vs. looking like absurdly hacked scores posted by cheaters. </p><p></p><p>You do have to admit.....from a casual player's point of view, it's easy to question the legitimacy of their scores. You have the same 2-3 people. They have the top scores on an overwhelming majority of the tables. Their scores in many cases are orders of magnitude above the norms for the table, even by skilled players' standards. And they're playing on a platform that is the most easily hackable/moddable format in gaming today. The fact that those scores most likely cannot be duplicated today because the exploits they used have been patched out goes a long way towards making the argument that their scores aren't legitimate.</p><p></p><p>If Steph Curry hopped onto the court and drilled those 20 in a row from the foul line instead of the 3 point line and just said "Hey, when I did it, shots from here counted as 3 pointers", it would look a lot less impressive. While I don't want to discount their legitimate skills (which I will admit are likely far ahead of my own), the fact that they posted those scores under what is effectively a different set of rules and game physics that do not exist today puts a really big, red asterisk next to their accomplishments. The scores, IMO, should be taken down and moved to their own leaderboard to recognize their contributions to the game. If they're really that skilled, they should have no problems regaining the top spots playing under the same conditions as everyone else.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="The-Man-In-Black, post: 275467, member: 7112"] I've been playing pinball for about 40 years, and own every table on TPA, Zen Pinball, the original Pinball HOF, etc. While I don't have every trophy out there because some of the tables are out of my skill range, I have a vast majority of them. I know how pinball works, and I know how emulation works. <Bunch of stuff snipped> TL;Dr version is that they were using a bunch of exploits that existed due to imperfect emulation of the tables. The exploits have since been patched out. I hesitate to call their scores "legitimate", as they were exploiting bugs and imperfections in the game emulation, but at the same time, they definitely weren't cheating either. Keep in mind that in most other places, scores earned under these conditions would not be considered legitimate. Even if you do want to consider the scores fully legitimate (and in that case, we'll have to agree to disagree), they still should be removed from the leaderboards as the scores were earned at a time when certain game bugs and imperfections still existed in the game's code, and the table physics was different. Since the bugs have been largely worked out and the table physics has changed, the scores should still be removed for those reasons alone. Ok, I could see that argument. I don't notice enough of a difference to matter, but I'll concede and leave that opinion up to people who are far more skilled than myself. Then in those cases, move them into their own "Hall of Fame" section (pun semi-intended). Give them a "Special Thanks" leaderboard or mention them in the credits. I will agree if they voluntarily put that much work into helping Farsight improve the game over the years and really do have that much skill (which I don't question), they deserve it. Giving them their own "Special Thanks" leaderboard would serve several purposes. 1) It would allow Farsight to recognize their accomplishments both in their skill at pinball and their help improving the game. 2) It would get scores that are no longer achievable due to the current state of the game off the regular leaderboards and put everyone back on an even footing. 3) It would mean that the current crop of top scores can be viewed in their proper context vs. looking like absurdly hacked scores posted by cheaters. You do have to admit.....from a casual player's point of view, it's easy to question the legitimacy of their scores. You have the same 2-3 people. They have the top scores on an overwhelming majority of the tables. Their scores in many cases are orders of magnitude above the norms for the table, even by skilled players' standards. And they're playing on a platform that is the most easily hackable/moddable format in gaming today. The fact that those scores most likely cannot be duplicated today because the exploits they used have been patched out goes a long way towards making the argument that their scores aren't legitimate. If Steph Curry hopped onto the court and drilled those 20 in a row from the foul line instead of the 3 point line and just said "Hey, when I did it, shots from here counted as 3 pointers", it would look a lot less impressive. While I don't want to discount their legitimate skills (which I will admit are likely far ahead of my own), the fact that they posted those scores under what is effectively a different set of rules and game physics that do not exist today puts a really big, red asterisk next to their accomplishments. The scores, IMO, should be taken down and moved to their own leaderboard to recognize their contributions to the game. If they're really that skilled, they should have no problems regaining the top spots playing under the same conditions as everyone else. [/QUOTE]
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Farsight Studios
The Pinball Arcade / Farsight Studios
Platform Specific
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Leaderboards NEED to be wiped on PS4 & other platforms possibly...
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