Multiple FX Pinball announcements today, plus first looks!

Scared Stiff

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May 18, 2019
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So another episode of The Pinball Show came out today and Zen released a whole bunch of news:

* NO MORE TABLE PACKS - That’s right. Now you will be able to buy just the tables you want. But they did say you will be able to make your own bundles too at least on some things which is interesting.

* OPTIONAL SUBSCRIPTION SERVICE - People will have the option to have a monthly subscription to play tables if they want, though some tables would not be part of this due to licensing issues.

* BUY THROUGH PINBALL FX - Instead of having to buy through a store’s page, you will be able to buy right from within the Pinball FX game itself.

* LONG GAMEPLAY LOOK OF INDY Was nice to see this table in action. It looks great.

In addition they also showed the final update before release of the Noir table (which looks fantastic!), showed the game room of Pinball FX itself, and announced they now have an official presense on reddit.

Link to The Pinball Show episode:

https://youtu.be/_Q5AqZTkUxQ
 
Oct 15, 2013
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I wonder if the Pinball Pass, the subscription service for Pinball FX, will be included in GamePass (Microsoft's subscription service for games)? Guaranteed Microsoft money for Zen with the potential of digital sales on top.
 

Narc0lep5y

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Feb 21, 2015
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The Reddit Q&A has tons more info in it too. m Some snippets from Mel below

ZenStudios-Mel
10 hr. ago

Cabinet mode is still under development and not quite ready to show off yet, but we will do a deep dive on this sometime in the near future. New features, options, etc are being added to cab mode.

Tickets are the basis for the in-game economy and was the key for us to unlock table packs. You can buy ticket for real money, then use them to buy individual tables.
Ticket pricing / value will be discussed soon, likely next month.

The darkened screen during Indy gameplay is specific to Castle Grunwald mode. Customized lighting options... that's a huge request. Stay tuned for news on this :)

First party rules still apply with purchases across different platforms. Nothing purchased on Xbox for example will unlock an item in PlayStation. Zen will not break that rule, so for now a subscription will be good for the platform it is purchased for.

Cabinet mode will not be a day one early access feature. It will come in one of the first updates.

Improved camera angles... this is one of the most requested features. Look out for details on this soon!
 

Cloda

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Oct 15, 2018
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The physics on Indiana Jones looked janky. I hope they refine it further before release and/or that they will listen to beta input.
 
Oct 15, 2013
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Well it's going to be a free download with a free table to try so I'll give it a go on my Series S this summer. Not expecting the gameplay to have changed much over FX3 though. It's just a repackage with fancier graphics and some gimmicky modes. I wonder if the tickets you purchase are 1:1 with the table prices or if you have to buy set amounts so you have extra tickets left over that are useless unless you buy more. Why switch to tickets if that's not the case?
 

shogun00

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Dec 25, 2012
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Why switch to tickets if that's not the case?
I know that Sony is trying to limit the amount of DLC that is released for each game. Magic Pixel had to release the Zaccaria Pinball tables in bundles because of this. They originally wanted to have the tables to be released similar to the Steam version, but Sony said no to that.

The ticket system is the next best thing, since it's only a few dlc bundles and that's it.
 

joeblow

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Feb 26, 2013
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The Reddit Q&A has tons more info in it too. m Some snippets from Mel below

They also strongly hint in the thread that VR support will likely be offered in some form. I have a PS5 with a lock on getting its PSVR2, so this is good "news" to me.

The main thing I was worried about though was being forced to subscribe to play tables. I'm glad they will still allow us to buy tables outright. They even hinted they will be some kind of special offer for owners of current tables on PFX3 who switch over, but no details were given yet. Maybe free tickets for each table we own per platform? That would result in a discount when they are redeemed (along with cash) to purchase them.
 
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pinfan7

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May 19, 2019
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http://www.digitalpinballfans.com/s...bles-by-TPA-be?p=296742&viewfull=1#post296742

TL;DR:

* OVERRATED by HYPE MACHINE CONFIRMED - as expected

* NO REAL IMPROVEMENT IN TABLE VISUALS - looks the same as FX3 but laughable raytracing mentioned 10 times... "selling point" desperation much?

* THE USUAL ****TY STIFF PHYSICS - ball comes down and... booooinggg... stiffness everywhere

* TIMMY'S STORE - Gone there to cash the dosh upfront without caring for existing customers (former fans), milking them and helping old pal Timmy canibalizing the market.

* ANIMATIONS - Uninspired and stupid. Seriously, it got old already...

* CONCLUSION: - VPX visuals and physics >>>>>>> this, anytime.
 
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Scared Stiff

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May 18, 2019
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http://www.digitalpinballfans.com/s...bles-by-TPA-be?p=296742&viewfull=1#post296742

TL;DR:

* OVERRATED by HYPE MACHINE CONFIRMED - as expected

* NO REAL IMPROVEMENT IN TABLE VISUALS - looks the same as FX3 but laughable raytracing mentioned 10 times... "selling point" desperation much?

* THE USUAL ****TY STIFF PHYSICS - ball comes down and... booooinggg... stiffness everywhere

* TIMMY'S STORE - Gone there to cash the dosh upfront without caring for existing customers (former fans), milking them and helping old pal Timmy canibalizing the market.

* ANIMATIONS - Uninspired and stupid. Seriously, it got old already...

* CONCLUSION: - VPX visuals and physics >>>>>>> this, anytime.

Tell us how you really feel....lol. Setting your negativity aside, there’s definitely improvement in visuals. If you cannot see them, then you better go get your vision checked!

As for the epic store exclusive...this is not news. Not sure why you are still complaining about it or what you would have had them do. They felt the need to get off their legacy engine and move to something more modern. So, they went with Epic, but that came with a price. Am I happy about it? No. Do I understand it? Yes. The alternative, which I guess is what you are proposing would have been to either do nothing at all, or start writing their own new engine from scratch, which would have taken a very long time and set them back years further than they already are. Then you would be complaining about THAT. In other words, I don’t think there is anything they could do that would make you happy.
 

Pinballwiz45b

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Aug 12, 2012
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* CONCLUSION: - VPX visuals and physics >>>>>>> this, anytime.

Even VPX has its flaws, as does many other digital pinball games. Some games suffer from overpowered nudging on keyboard, just like Zen. Your argument is invalid.

You can't beat the real thing, which is why I've grown to appreciate digital games with more viewpoints.

Remember also that digital pinball is a complete niche as it is, despite its surge in popularity over the past decade. Not everyone has ease of access to things like VPX or PinMAME, or heck, even building a custom cabinet.
 

pinfan7

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May 19, 2019
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there’s definitely improvement in visuals. If you cannot see them, then you better go get your vision checked! .

VPX:

IJ-4k.jpg.299ed18643f9899f4ad06ae0fa8f6ea2.jpg



Seriously, you compare the visuals of the above screenshot and the visuals/ physics of this video


with Zen's version? xD xD xD xD

I think it's you who needs to see a doctor ASAP instead xD

Your argument is invalid.

Couldn't be further from the truth. Even the untrained eye/person can tell in 2 seconds in which version the ball has real mass & weight and how natural it moves and behaves, including unpredictability. But I guess you can keep Scared Stiff company at the doctor :p

P.S. Add superior sound as well to the list.
 
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yespage

Member
Oct 31, 2015
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Having a hard time getting excited, with a 5 or 6 month turnaround still until consoles. It has been so dry recently, the mere release of news these days feels like a release of a pinball pack.

For FX4, I was a hard sell for FX3 for Williams, but ultimately it was worth it. The question will be, is the upgrade from 3 to 4 going to be worth it or is it diminishing returns?
 

Scared Stiff

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May 18, 2019
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VPX:

IJ-4k.jpg.299ed18643f9899f4ad06ae0fa8f6ea2.jpg



Seriously, you compare the visuals of the above screenshot and the visuals/ physics of this video


with Zen's version? xD xD xD xD

I think it's you who needs to see a doctor ASAP instead xD



Couldn't be further from the truth. Even the untrained eye/person can tell in 2 seconds in which version the ball has real mass & weight and how natural it moves and behaves, including unpredictability. But I guess you can keep Scared Stiff company at the doctor :p

P.S. Add superior sound as well to the list.

Like I said, if you cannot see any improvement in visuals, than there is something wrong with your eyes. And like I also said, nothing they do would make you happy. You just want to be negative. So I equate your complaints with a grain of salt.

Has Zen made some misteps with this transition? Absolutely. Is everything as horrible as you make it out to be? No. The truth, as with most things in life, lays somewhere in the middle.
 

thefly0810

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Feb 13, 2014
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Like I said, if you cannot see any improvement in visuals, than there is something wrong with your eyes. And like I also said, nothing they do would make you happy. You just want to be negative. So I equate your complaints with a grain of salt.

Has Zen made some misteps with this transition? Absolutely. Is everything as horrible as you make it out to be? No. The truth, as with most things in life, lays somewhere in the middle.

I'm looking forward to seeing a direct comparison of the 2. It's hard to judge it on Pinball FX until it releases. I'm hoping to see a direct video comparison between FX, 3 and VP once they're all available. I'm excited to see how much has changed and how Pinball Royale is going to turn out.
 

pinfan7

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May 19, 2019
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I'm looking forward to seeing a direct comparison of the 2.

You can see it already in that other thread, and in the video shown. Don't expect much improvement, because don't forget that FX is a multiplatform game (catering to Fartnite teens (see Battle Royale) and mobile phone gamers)), so it can never compete with VPX which cranks every detail to maximum because it is PC only and because it is an act of love instead of an act of stripping money from pockets. As I said in that thread,

The differences in those 2 screenshots below are minimal and what you see there is the infamous -for many years- lacking of proper Anti-aliasing (no MSAA or SSAA iirc) in the Unreal Engine 4. You can enforce more sharpness and colour warmth through your GPU control panel if you want it to look like that in FX3.
Notice also the lack of reflection on the table sides. In fact it's pretty dissapointing what I see there, I would expect way more fidelity, detail, HDR lighting, including a different playing environment for FX [...]

Right-click on image, "open in new tab"

IJ_FX3_VS_Unreal.png


Notice how much more polygons, detail and real shaders the VPX models (2 posts above) have compared to FX (the planes, METAL rotating head, transparent bumpers, the rails,... real lighting...).

Like I said, if you cannot see any improvement in visuals, than there is something wrong with your eyes.

You seem to be mad to and fighting with reality, or very susceptible to companies' marketing (I can easily blur an image to sell you the new one), so when FX reaches this level of REALISM below in details, visuals and lighting, then we can talk again :D

 
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thefly0810

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Feb 13, 2014
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You can see it already in that other thread, and in the video shown. Don't expect much improvement, because don't forget that FX is a multiplatform game (catering to Fartnite teens (see Battle Royale) and mobile phone gamers)), so it can never compete with VPX which cranks every detail to maximum because it is PC only and because it is an act of love instead of an act of stripping money from pockets. As I said in that thread,



Right-click on image, "open in new tab"

IJ_FX3_VS_Unreal.png


Notice how much more polygons, detail and real shaders the VPX models (2 posts above) have (plane, METAL rotating head, transparent bumpers, real lighting) compared to FX.



You seem to be mad to and fighting with reality, so when FX reaches this level of REALISM below in details, visuals and lighting, then we can talk again :D


I'm not disputing that VP looks better. I'm curious on how the final products in action will look while in motion. I unfortunately have an old pc that can hardly run steam so unfortunately I won't be the one to do a comparison video. I'm primarily a console player. I've never really had a problem with Zen. The customer service has always been great and I've had purchases from Zen Pinball 1 transfer all the was to Pinball FX3 on my PS 4 (5 too if I had one) l don't mind eventually buying them again on sale for Pinball FX as well. I still enjoy TPA and Zaccaria as well. I'm glad you prefer VP. Maybe someday I'll own a higher end PC or a cabinet that i can install it on. But I'm not in the position to afford either and I won't be for a while. That's the great thing about consumerism - I can freely spend my money on what I want while you can freely choose not to support them. I've spent money on a lot worse.
 

shogun00

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Dec 25, 2012
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Seriously, you compare the visuals of the above screenshot and the visuals/ physics of this video
with Zen's version? xD xD xD xD <snip>
This is going to be YMMV (your milage may vary) situation.

I'm not going to bother comparing the two as they are. You're comparing an alpha build (PFX) to a more complete program (VPX), that's been out for a few years.

Clearly the video that Zen provided is using the casual physics and not the Willams physics. It also looks like Zen is using the default settings too. Even PFX3 had a gamma option that spices up the lighting. Who knows what other options Zen will provide in the final product. The VPX video on the other hand is at optimal settings. Can you guarantee that everyone will have the same experience as that VPX video? Doubt it! I have a decent laptop and I still have to adjust the settings to get a steady framerate. This usually makes the lighting effects look washed out for me

One issue I have with Visual Pinball in general is that there is no quality consistency. Some tables look amazing, while others look downright aweful. It really depends on the table author and how much effort they put into it. At least with Zen, Magic Pixel, and Farsight, I know that the quality of the tables will be on par with each other.
 

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