Multiple FX Pinball announcements today, plus first looks!

Pinballwiz45b

Active member
Aug 12, 2012
3,642
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For me it too little, too late. ZEN really killed my love for digital pinball. I bought all available tables on the WiiU, and later again on the PS4 platform.
But with the long-standing bugs on some tables and the censorship on the consoles I recently decided to sell my PS4pro (which I actually only used for Pinball) and call it a day. Also looking at the new announcement, I don't see the the big advantage for the users of migrating to the new software plarform, except for ZEN being able to sell the same tables again.
It was fun for as long as it lasted. Farewell ZEN.

Pinball FX will not have any censorship on consoles going forward.
 

pinballmonster

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Sep 9, 2021
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The big advantage is that not only will the graphics be better, but by not having to develop and maintain their own proprietary engine, they can devote time and resources to just the tables themselves which should help speed things up a little. There have been quite a few new tables released for Apple Arcade in a relatively brief amount of time, so I think it’s already helping. But time will tell on that.

As for censorship on consoles, well, use the PC version then. No need to abandon ship completely.

Those tables all suck ass though.
 

Scared Stiff

New member
May 18, 2019
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Those tables all suck though.

No they don’t. The Garfield table is pretty good. Snoopy one not quite as good but the animations are really nice and it is super challenging. The Pinball Party is fun, and How to Train Your Dragon is good as well. Adventure Land is okay. I surprisingly liked the Trolls table too. But yeah, some of the others not so much, especially My Little Pony. Ugh. The worst.

The only real negative I have (and something that probably is just unavoidable) is the file size for the app is absolutely huge. It’s been growing with each update and is up to almost 3gb now. That’s a lot to keep downloading with each update. I think the max file size in the app store is 4gb, so they don’t have a whole lot of room to grow and at some point will have some hard choices to make. Rotate tables out? Create additional apps? They will have to do something. Either that or just cease development.
 

pinballmonster

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Sep 9, 2021
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No they don’t. The Garfield table is pretty good. Snoopy one not quite as good but the animations are really nice and it is super challenging. The Pinball Party is fun, and How to Train Your Dragon is good as well. Adventure Land is okay. I surprisingly liked the Trolls table too. But yeah, some of the others not so much, especially My Little Pony. Ugh. The worst.

The only real negative I have (and something that probably is just unavoidable) is the file size for the app is absolutely huge. It’s been growing with each update and is up to almost 3gb now. That’s a lot to keep downloading with each update. I think the max file size in the app store is 4gb, so they don’t have a whole lot of room to grow and at some point will have some hard choices to make. Rotate tables out? Create additional apps? They will have to do something. Either that or just cease development.

They're simple, cartoonish, easy to design tables. The designs look more like careless doodles than actual, challenging tables with realistic physics. It's a cash cow, not pinball design.
 

wilbers

Member
Aug 8, 2018
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They're simple, cartoonish, easy to design tables. The designs look more like careless doodles than actual, challenging tables with realistic physics. It's a cash cow, not pinball design.

There has been a hint that some of the Apple exclusive tables may get a more advanced ruleset when/if they come to pinball FX so don't automatically dismiss them all (though My Little Pony still seems questionable as an IP)
 

thefly0810

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Feb 13, 2014
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They're simple, cartoonish, easy to design tables. The designs look more like careless doodles than actual, challenging tables with realistic physics. It's a cash cow, not pinball design.

That's exactly what they are - gateway tables. Simple tables for a targeted customer base - a younger audience especially. That's what it's there for - try to build the next generation of pinball players, to not only expand the current base but also build it for the future.
The cash cow thing is funny because wasn't one of overall purposes of real pinball tables and arcade machines in general was to eat up quarters and make money?😁
 

Scared Stiff

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May 18, 2019
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They're simple, cartoonish, easy to design tables. The designs look more like careless doodles than actual, challenging tables with realistic physics. It's a cash cow, not pinball design.

It might be cartoonish, since you know...it’s based on a CARTOON, but I assure you that the Snoopy table is challenging. Quite challenging actually.
 

Scared Stiff

New member
May 18, 2019
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Just an FYI...

Zen will be updating us with pricing and release info tomorrow on the March edition of The Pinball Show! So more news is about to drop!
 

yespage

Member
Oct 31, 2015
451
1
link

So you buy tickets and then use tickets to get tables, which allows a bit of bulk ticket benefit at higher dollar amounts.

$10 ticket set gets 2 non-legacy games plus 20 remaining tickets or 2 legacy games, 10 remaining tickets. Price doesn't seem crazy, as it was effectively 3 tables for $10 and now it is about 3 tables for $12ish. Most of the Williams tables appear to be available on release. Was hoping for some new Williams release (yes, we got Indy, but it has been a while).
 

zmcvay

Member
Sep 19, 2014
351
1
March 31st, sadly except for Indy you can't purchase tables with money, you have to buy tickets and turn those into table purchases.

Purchase tickets in bundles of 100 ($9.99), 220 ($19.99), 575 ($49.99), and 1200 ($99.99)

Pricing:

Zen Original Legacy tables: 40 tickets

Licensed Legacy tables (Universal, Star Wars, assuming Williams): 45 tickets

All Pinball FX3 legacy tables (except Indy), are 33% off week 1. That includes legacy tables released later, they will be 33% off their first week.

New Zen Original Tables: 55 tickets

New Licensed Tables (includes Mandalorian and Classic Collectibles even though they released in VR a year ago): 60 tickets

Premium Licensed (Curently only Indy): Special cases, currently Indy is $15, not included in Pinball Pass or available for purchase with tickets.


Just putting the info out there. Have mixed feelings about it myself.

Edit: Crunched the numbers and the $99.99 level should be just enough to get all the day 1 tables except for Indy, including the 33% week 1 savings.

Edit: Just realized the list I was going off of from the Pinball FX FAQ had the tables "Williams JunkYard Williams Attack from Mars" and "Secrets of the Deep Rome". Adding 2 more tables puts it just over 1200 tickets, even with the week 1 discount.
 
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Crawley

New member
Mar 25, 2013
699
1
Still in for Indy and Noir. Most likely the other Williams tables.

Hopefully the Bethesda and Alien tables make it. Really the only other legacy tables I'm interested in purchasing again.

Pinball Pass pricing seemed like a miss. $15 a month or $100 a year. Would rather spend the $100 on tickets and own the tables for as long as Pinball FX lasts.
 

yespage

Member
Oct 31, 2015
451
1
March 31st, sadly except for Indy you can't purchase tables with money, you have to buy tickets and turn those into table purchases.

Purchase tickets in bundles of 100 ($9.99), 220 ($19.99), 575 ($49.99), and 1200 ($99.99)
So, the cost of the tables depends on how much money you spend on tickets. A ticket costs 8.3 cents at $100 purchase and 10 cents at $10 purchase.

So new licensed tables are $5 for people that put in $100 and $6 for people that put in $10. And if you put in $10, that means you have 40 more tickets, not enough for FX3 legacy table.

Not a fan of this system. They are making you to pay for something you aren't even buying. A "$6" table could actually cost you $10. Want 6 Williams tables, that'll be $30 for "$27" of tables. Yes, first world problems and all, but I'm a fan of a price tag. Yes, the cost is about the same as it was. But the accounting gimmick bothers me.
 

pinballmonster

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Sep 9, 2021
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So, the cost of the tables depends on how much money you spend on tickets. A ticket costs 8.3 cents at $100 purchase and 10 cents at $10 purchase.

So new licensed tables are $5 for people that put in $100 and $6 for people that put in $10. And if you put in $10, that means you have 40 more tickets, not enough for FX3 legacy table.

Not a fan of this system. They are making you to pay for something you aren't even buying. A "$6" table could actually cost you $10. Want 6 Williams tables, that'll be $30 for "$27" of tables. Yes, first world problems and all, but I'm a fan of a price tag. Yes, the cost is about the same as it was. But the accounting gimmick bothers me.

Zen's customers were asking for discounts in lieu of games porting over. This seems to be a way of offering discounts not only to previous customers but to new customers as well. The more you spend, the steeper the discount. This is not the exact equivalent of offering bigger discounts to customers who had bought more tables but it's close enough.

The 33% discount for first week customers I have mixed feelings about. I'm not on PC so I'd be hit with a pretty big price penalty if I choose to buy in later. Of course, I could wait until all tables are re-released on Steam but that's a year long wait, which is a steep penalty of another kind!

Zen is allowing stacking of discounts so the savings are pretty substantial if you opt to buy everything week 1.

They're also letting you know that the steam version will almost certainly have physics upgrades and that may be enough of an enticement to purchase tables again since they will not port over.
 

Crawley

New member
Mar 25, 2013
699
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The 33% discount for first week customers I have mixed feelings about. I'm not on PC so I'd be hit with a pretty big price penalty if I choose to buy in later. Of course, I could wait until all tables are re-released on Steam but that's a year long wait, which is a steep penalty of another kind!
.

Since it’s all in app purchases wouldn’t the only thing released on steam that would be purchasable be the premium licensed tables (Indy)? The ticketing system and prices would be handled on Zens end.
 

Scared Stiff

New member
May 18, 2019
184
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Still in for Indy and Noir. Most likely the other Williams tables.

Pinball Pass pricing seemed like a miss. $15 a month or $100 a year. Would rather spend the $100 on tickets and own the tables for as long as Pinball FX lasts.

Indeed. I pay only $5 a month for Apple Arcade and get not only a lot of Zen’s tables but also access to over 200 other games. So $15 for just Zen by itself is way out of whack compared to that.
 

Narc0lep5y

Member
Feb 21, 2015
311
0
Zen has their Epic money up front. They are going to price tables high and get early adopters cash in hand while they can.
They are trying to get the early adopters for top dollar. 33% off at launch is a deal? It's still $2.70 per table for Zen originals. The Zen classics pack for FX3 has 4 tables for $10 which is $2.50 each not on sale. Even the 3 per $10 table is not much more than that. I loved seeing Adventure land in the previews to remember when they gave it away for free as a thank you only to realize that this time the thank you is a 33% discount.

Prices wont stay this high. Sales will be frequent. Be patient. Don't pay now based on future promises like cabinet mode. Pay when they deliver. Don't be surprised when they charge for cabinet mode too. Charging premium prices for early access is all part of the cash grab. They want to create value to push into the monthly sub.

and $14.99 per month is crazy pricing. Feed the beast at your peril.
 

pinballmonster

New member
Sep 9, 2021
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My understanding is that zen hired a lot of new developers to get this launch out as soon as possible. Talented developers don't come cheap either to hire or retain.

I'm still baffled by those people who want all of these tables for free AGAIN. It requires a lot of time and effort to improve existing tables and to create originals. Zen is not a charity. They need money to stay in business. The more money they have, the more effectively they can compete to hire the best talent, resulting in better quality products down the road.

The better the product, they more they can and should charge. The tables look great and if I were on PC, I'd be buying them all immediately week 1.
 
Oct 15, 2013
223
0
Of course the ticket system doesn't work out in the customers favor. 300+ dollars for all the tables? Zen has released 100 tables and the top ticket amount gets you all the day one tables which is 37 not including Indy for an extra 15? Hoepfully the console release will be better in terms of pricing. The subscription is even worse and doesn't include the premium tables from the sound of it. Also the Williams tables were not specifically mentioned in the pricing. Zaccaria pinball is a much better deal, at least on console. You can get everything for around 70 dollars. It's a few releases behind the PC version but still.

I'll try the new Pinball FX but unless those new physics blow me away and the censorship is gone the price is just too steep.
 

pinballmonster

New member
Sep 9, 2021
47
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Another bizarre assumption: what is compelling much less FORCING zen's customer base to buy ALL of their 100 tables?!?

I have all of the Williams tables on mobile and Mac desktop but only a handful of zen originals, mainly due to having a chance to play them on Apple Arcade. I have no interest in playing bob's burgers pinball, for instance. I purchased the Darth Vader table by accident and it's dull and repetitive. The zen originals with zen physics are by and large not especially challenging and it must take hours to produce a top score.

Clearly, some titles are better than others and I just don't see any clear reason to buy all of them once much less the entire lot multiple times over.

The lack of selectivity and/or inexplicable need to own EVERYTHING this company produces seems more the source of the problem rather than zen's pricing model. Whatever happened to self control?
 

yespage

Member
Oct 31, 2015
451
1
Pricing isn't my problem, the method of not being able to purchase tables is. The cost is a bit higher now, fine, but I don't like paying for tickets that can only be used by buying more tickets.
 
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