Top 5-10 Pinballs every made - Pro talk

[PET3R]

Hi Everyone,

This thread is to find and rank top 5 possibly top 10 pinballs ever made, but instead of voting
we will have the proper discussion about each table, highlighting why it should or should not be number 1.

I am always playing for a score and that is no.1 priority in pinball I am looking for. We are not rating the table
on its looks, theme, sound, call outs, how funny it is, or what an amazing toys it got. These will be considered as nice bonuses but we are rating the tables
on scoring system, layout and gameplay mainly. Table should be fun to play, have some meat to it or challenge but not overcomplicated rules.
Sometimes beauty is in simplicty.

I am looking mainly for PRO PLAYERS who knows the tables and its strengths and weakneses very well and can provide valid statement why the table should
or should not be the number 1.

Please write for each table discussing how many plays you had on it so we can get an idea of how well you know the table and also whether you played it in real
life or on arcade pinball only. Unfortunatelly I haven't had chance to play any of the tables in real life so my comments will be based on arcade pinball only.

Those who play on PC or PS/Xbox where the games can be never ending should be carefull with their comments when it comes to discussion about how easy/hard it is to beat
the table or wizard mode. I play on ios only where the games seems to be very quick and therefore are much closer to the real thing. Correct me if I am wrong
but it seems the ball runs slower or more smooth on PC/XBOX/PS therefore making it easier to keep it in play + the nudging.

I am aware we all have our own taste and that we might not be 100% successfull in agreeing the top 5/10, but I am hoping that we will at least agree
on tables that are really overrated and do not belong to this top list and the ones that really should deserve that no 1 spot.

I am really looking forward to this discussion and hope everyone will enjoy it.

Peter

 

[PET3R]

To start the discussion here are some of my observations.
I have played each table at least 30-50 times.

Theatre of Magic (NOT in top 5)
-----------------
+ very good ballanced scoring
+ nice shots and good flow of table
+ lot of variety

- it is one of these tables - complete 4 goals to get wizard mode, which
are not very interesting. Missions which you can just time out, spell
thatre, spell magic. There are other games like AFM, MB, MM, CC, SS that in
my opinion do it much better.
- this is good layout of the table, however you can find similiar in MM, MB, AFM
which in my opinion are much more fun games.
- hitting the trunk all the time, even worse if you going to time out mission
- if it comes to mission based tables I find TZ or TAF much better.

Ripleys Believe it or not
-------------------------
Haven't played this much yet. Only part I like is that it forces you to finish succesfully the modes as it always awards you a letter.
However once you finish all the continents with a good score the strategy seems to be quickly timing out the second round so you will get again the combined score.
The slot machine does not seem to be very interesting, and I dislike the 2x score as that can make a really huge difference in scoring when timed right.


Arabian Nights (NOT in top 5)
--------------
Very nice and fun table however hitting the lamp is the key to high score.
Spin it 60 times in ball one so the bonus caries over. Always go for
lamp scoring x3 x3 x3 x3 and get scores that are 10-50x higher than
playing the modes and beating wizard mode.


Medieval Madness (?)
----------------
This is one table I am confused about. Some says it is very overated, some says it is the best table. The more I play it I think the more I am starting
to appreciate it, but still can't understand the hype. Hitting the castle feels very repetitive and the rest of the table is about hitting the ramps.
The trolls dont feel fun to hit as it is in CC, and there seems to be nothing else to this table. Hopefully this discussion will make it clear whether
I am missing something or the table is really popular because of the greatest toy in pinball - Castle.

Circus Voltaire (Not in top 5)
---------------
I really dont like the layout of this table and the multiball ramp which is hard to hit and can be a big drainer. When someone mentions this table, CC comes immediatelly
to my mind, which I think is much better done. Instead of ringmaster, you are hitting a Bart. Instead of 9 not very fun goals you have 5 very solid ones. Not very big fan
of 3 stage wizard mode even though it is very interesting. I find rewarding 30 sec multiball in CC much more fun.


Creature from the black lagoon (NOT in top 5)
------------------------------
Spot FILM, find the girl, maximise multiplier for the super jackpot and hit super jackpot. That is pretty much I can see in this pinball. Nothing wrong with it
but I do not like repetitive shots, maximize super jackpot before hitting it. So you keep shooting this ramp again and again and finally when your multiplier is at max
you drain the ball. Sorry not fun for me. The other one is creating combo of 16 million before scoring it. Again you keep hitting that one ramp and then you miss the
shot to score these 16 or 32 million. And if you are good at it you can keep doing it whole day and make a huge score.

Monster Bash (Probably no.1)
------------
Wish the layout was little different and ramps were more easier to hit like in MM, WW or ToM, but maybe it just want a bit of practice. Appart from that there is nothing
I would not like about this table. Probably the modes could have little more variety, but everything else shines. You can skip all the animations, and this is the only
table where I find all the satisfaction from the other tables.

TAF, TZ, - play the timed modes but here I can directly start the particular mode I want or need.
RBION, STTNG - play the modes well to be awarded instrument and get a Monsters of rock.
MM, AFM, CC, SS - complete loops, achieve 6 different goals, Frank target (saucer, castle, crate) not the best one but seeing progress by body parts must be the best.
Stacking up different modes and creating interesting strategies, bombs in AFM for collecting instruments.
SS - start all the modes but dont have to finish them - you will get Monster Bash multiball.
CC, MM, Stoker's Dracula - pop up targets or moving ball - Drac moving from side to side, Standing up Frank
Harley davidson - 4 different multiballs, Pit, Frank, Monster Bash, Monsters of Rock

To top this up, this table also includes lot of bonuses - great theme, sound, art, music, call outs, humor.


Scared Stiff (Yes - top 5)
------------
Very well done crate target. It is like Saucer or Castle but without the feel of being repetitive. It is quite easy to hit, just like the left ramp, but when it
comes to wizard mode, suddenly you have difficulty to hit them as you loose the timing. I love it - excelent. Very easy rules, and full use of every feature of the table.
Deadheads, lab, beast, coffin, crate, leapers (bumpers, multipliers, ramps, crate, stading targets). Very good and balanced scoring. Simple requirements, no need for
super jackpot like in AFM, therefore you get the wizard in every game, but every time it becomes more difficult as you need to hit more labs, coffins, crates...
Multiball does not feel very chaotic but you can very well control the balls. It is really good that the jackpots alternate between ramps, however this is not the case
in wizard which I cant decide whether I like it, as you can hold 2 balls on one flipper and then just do loops with the other one.


Twilight Zone
-------------
Even though it is an excelent table you will immediatelly compare it to TAF, which for me is more elegant, original and better made table.
Layout is not as great as in TAF. Not good use of space. The gumball takes lot of space, together with powerfield. Those 3 bumpers are not very well placed,
and whole table looks very cluttered. I appreciate that Pat wanted to put more stuff into pinball, but that's how it exactly feels. Fit in as much as you can.
There are more modes in here but I find them less interesting. You have 2x clocks, which is hitting the drop target. Greed again involves hitting drop targets.
One of the modes is skill shot which does not even have to be collected from the piano as it can be achieved at the beginning of the ball. The rest is about hitting
1 target or collecting some awards. Even though the powerfield is fun I am not a big fun of these toys which takes your attention from the main playfield, as well as
I am not a fan of video modes (it is more acceptable when they are very short). Ceramic ball is nice touchm however not a big use of it and it feels more like a gimmick.



Star Trek Next Generation (Yes - top 5)
-------------------------
I like the concept of this pinball and the layout of the table. The whole table is about hitting ramps and accuracy, and if you miss, well, you drain
as this table is very punishable. I love how it encourages you to play well the modes as these have a great impact on the wizard mode. Some of the modes
could be probably more fun or little different but overal I am happy with this table. I know lot of people complaining about the hungry outlanes, but the fact is -
if you never miss a ramp you will never drain.


Attack from Mars (not in top 5)
----------------
Very good table. I like the variety of the modes and hitting saucer is much more fun then hitting the castle due to angled opening - returning of the ball is more varied.
Also you need to hit first the shield which gives different feeling. In castle you hit always castle.
You see the health on the display which makes it much more fun destroying the saucer compared to counting how many more times you need to hit the castle.
Very good balanced scoring, even thogh these billions- trilions are silly and unnecessary. Constant hitting of the saucer can become very repetitive.
What kills this game for me is the requirement for super jackpot and 5 way combo. You might have a perfect game but be unlucky in achieving one of those which results in
loosing 5 billion points. To me that is no fun. I would love this table if these 2 requirements would be changed - start the multiball, 10 way combo the way it is in CC.
I feel there is nothing wrong with achieving the wizard mode quite regularly, specially when you playing for score. This way I know I will beat my score only once I again
rule the universe which might not be very soon. I need to feel that I can beat my high score any day, unfortunatelly that is not the case here, becasue even if i am having
a perfect run, that one super jackpot might stop me from beating my score. This is great game, but with these rules feels more like, I played it, I beaten it, cant be bother
to go through that again.


Cactus Canyon (Yes - top 5)
-------------
One of the tables where you need to achieve 5 goals. Prefer it to AFM as you dont need to hit super jackpot (motherload is easy to achieve) and 5 way combo (10 way combo
accumulating). The pop up targets and duels are probably the most fun it can get in pinball. Yes the outlanes are hungry but if you play controled pinball usually the ball
stays in game for quite a long. And similiarly as in STTNG if you dont miss the ramps your ball should not really drain. I love the 30 sec mutliball with pop up targets
probably my favourite of all. I can feel here the other pinballs - CV, MM, AFM but I enjoy this one and the rules the most.


White Water (not in top 5)
-----------
One of my top tables. I really love this table and its features however 5x playfield and those jackpot rules ruin it for me.
Feel like the whole game is about making succesfully 3 shots to 3x your jackpot and then just hitting jackpots.
You can have an amazing game but if you fail to 3x your jackpot, specially when it is very high seems like your high score
is 1/3 of what it could have been. Vacation jackpot requirements are also frustrating - class 6 river together with 3 locks.

Terminator 2 (not in top 5)
------------
Probably the only game that rewards you for keeping all three balls in play and locking them. Briliant idea.
However you need only 2 balls to be able to get the super jackpot, and then it is all about the gun.
Gun, gun, gun. You loose 50 million because you did not aim well enough. For me the pinball skill is
about flippers and how well you can keep ball in game, not about gun. Therefore this cannot be in the top list.

Addams Family (Yes - top 5)
-------------
In my opinion the best layout of the table out there with 4 flippers, that feels more like 3. I know many of you
consider MM as best layout but to me they are just loops of ramps around the table.
Nice variety of modes that use every single part of the table. Bumpers, ramps, tunnels,
probalby best ballanced table out there. Perfect example of what I think multiball should be.
Not the easiest to start and you need a skill to hit and relight those jackpots. I hate the tables
where the first thing you do is go for multiball because it gives the most points and you just keep
hitting jackpot after jackpot. I dont mind it as a reward like a wizard in MB or TZ but having it as a regular
multiball it looses all the magic. Can't really think of the negatives. I like that after tour the mansion you can play it again
only after you drain the ball. So if you are really good it forces you to make the most out of each mode as there will be not much left
to do once you tour the mansion. Very interesting shots, nice variety. Not sure I am fan of powerfield and I dont like that you can time it out.

 

[vikingerik]

Monster Bash (Probably no.1)

I agree here, I think Monster Bash is the best of all time. It does right what so many other tables get wrong in so many areas:

- The modes are all stackable, none lock out the others, so you never get in a situation where you just want to wait for something to time out. But it's not required to stack anything to get high scores like BSD or TSPP.

- The modes are parallelizable and independent, you can make progress towards any whenever you want, as opposed to linearly grinding through mansion rooms or door panels, or having to restart the whole package like the Madness multiballs.

- The modes are all different, you're not bashing the same castle or saucer or boxer or Bart forever.

- It follows the "complete 6 tasks for wizard mode" principle, but the monsters add a great layer of flavor that really feels coherently and organically designed rather than box-ticking an arbitrary list of goals like in say CV or Scared Stiff.

- It solves the question of completing modes very elegantly, with separate tracks of progress for starting (Monster Bash) and for completing (Monsters of Rock). It's entirely up to the player which to go for, either path is reasonable.

- It keeps focus on the monster modes, without a million side features or mechanical gadgets distracting you like in TZ. Phantom Flip and the moving Dracula are just enough mechanical trickery and it doesn't need any more.

- The layout is fine. Sure, it's a standard orbits-and-ramps fan, but that's fine. It has no dangerous outlanes or nasty ejects that often arise with more gimmicky layouts. It's quite fair.

- It does so many little things to help the player. The way other modes can stack into Monster Bash to help reach Monsters of Rock - pure genius. The monster bombs allow a solution if there's something you just can't hit well. The scoop randomizer knows what's going on and will often start the last mode the player needs. There's not a single rough edge or gotcha in the rules.

- The sound and music and voice work is also the best of all time. The whole deal is just nonstop joyous exuberance with the monsters. LIVE FROM TRANSYLVANIA SQUARE GARDEN!

Monster Bash is the platonic example of a perfect pinball machine, I say.

 

[invitro]

Awesome stuff, v.e.! As always, you've got a genius for putting complex things into succinct statements.

- The layout is fine. Sure, it's a standard orbits-and-ramps fan, but that's fine. It has no dangerous outlanes or nasty ejects that often arise with more gimmicky layouts. It's quite fair.

- The sound and music and voice work is also the best of all time. The whole deal is just nonstop joyous exuberance with the monsters. LIVE FROM TRANSYLVANIA SQUARE GARDEN!

I think the layout is better than fine... all three ramps feel substantially different than other machines' ramps, and the center shot has a non-standard feel, too. I'm sure this is highly personal though.

I put AFM ahead of MB for sound/music/voice.

I don't know why, but in the recent talk about Stern/GoT/Hobbit art, I instinctively compare them to MB art and wonder why modern (or post-modern) pinball artists can't make anything nearly as good as MB any more. Maybe MB is the last pinball machine that has what I consider truly great pinball art. (I don't know if I'd say that about CC.)

 

[PET3R]

Vikingerik - thank you for starting up discussion with a fantastic post. These are very good and valid points you have stated there. Very well written. MB started with a very strong defense. I hope other tables will get similar discussion. Would love to hear your thoughts on the other 9 in the top 10

Everyone feel free to write your thoughts, compare the tables, praise the tables or bash them. The more we discuss them the more accurate will the top 10 be.

 

[vikingerik]

I don't think I have enough to say about all of them, but gotta get my bash in on Medieval Madness.

I think the design of the Multiball Madness rounds is atrocious, and ruins the rest of the game for me. We all laugh about the times we hit Merlin's too early and start too few Madnesses... but that's not a laughing matter. No other game penalizes you to anywhere near that degree for an errant shot to something too soon. If you don't win Trolls beforehand or start it along with Madness, you completely lose your shot at Troll Madness and have to go all the way around through Royal before you get another shot at completing the trolls requirement for the wizard mode. No other machine can actually put you farther from the wizard mode than you were at coin drop game start. Seriously, after a busted Madness stack, restarting the game gets you closer to the wizard mode!

Where MB subtly helps the player along, MM subtly screws the player over. MM also has more distractions in the catapult items and hurryups and video mode, where MB cuts everything down to perfect elegance.

That all said, if you're not worried about the wizard mode, the rest of MM is good and does live up to its hype. The rest of the rules work well, the castle is a great toy, the layout is also fine, and the voice work is top notch along with MB and AFM. But of course I do focus on the wizard mode and the table fails me badly.

Do note that the TPA conversion does MM a disservice, with Farsight's flippers that are unrealistically weak on any running shots up the middle. If you just flail and whack on MM, you're supposed to hit the castle and trolls a decent number of times. But that doesn't happen on TPA, you get railroaded up the ramps instead which doesn't really do anything and feels empty.

I put AFM ahead of MB for sound/music/voice.

I just saw the original post says not to rate the tables on that, but looks like we're including that anyway. AFM, MM, and MB are all tied for equally awesome voice work, I think. But MB is a cut above the others for music. The music of the others fades into the background too often and isn't energetic enough, notably the Total Annihilation theme. But every one of the six monsters has a rocking upbeat theme that escalates the energy of the table even more. And Mosh Pit goes to yet another level of rocking even harder.

 

[PET3R]

I did not know that about MM so thank you for clearing that out. I guess that wizard mode gives lot of points and is quite important for scoring. But knowing now about this cruel penalty for a single shot might actually push the table quite a lot down the rankings or even outside top 10. I will have to give more gameplays to fully understand the rules of this table as I thought it was straight forward shoot each ramp 9x and destroy the castle 6x for the wizard mode.

!!! Yes you are right that we are not supposed to rate the tables on sound/music/voice... and therefore I would really like if we could keep it to a minimum and not get carried away with it. We will use it only as a bonus if there are 2 tables with the same ranking and we cant decide which one should be higher, but please try not to write about it for now.

So looking purely from the gameplay/scoring/layout... side, would anyone agree with me that the MM should not even be in the top 5/10 for its 1 shot penalty that vikingerik mentioned ?

 

[PET3R]

Ranking so far:
==========

1.Monster Bash

top 5 material
---------------
Addams Family
Star Trek Next Generation
Scared Stiff
Twilight Zone
Cactus Canyon

top 10 Material
---------------
Theatre of Magic
Ripleys Believe it or not
Circus Voltaire
Creature from the black lagoon
Attack from Mars

Out of top 10
--------------
White Water - due to 3x Jackpot & Vacation Jackpot (class 6 river+3 locks)
Terminator 2 - due to big importance of the gun
Medieval Madness - due to early shot to Merlin's before trolls
Arabian Nights - due to big importance of lamp scoring

 

[Fungi]

So looking purely from the gameplay/scoring/layout... side, would anyone agree with me that the MM should not even be in the top 5/10 for its 1 shot penalty that vikingerik mentioned ?

Well, one man's poison is another man's pleasure. If it wasn't for the "no net" experience of BFTK in MM, I wouldn't get half the rush I get when attempting it.

 

[PET3R]

You have a good point there Fungi but don't you think perfect pinball table could create you that rush in a different way ? We are talking about early shot to Merlin's. Do you think that MB would give you much more rush if there was similar punishment involved ? Do you think MB needs something like this to make it a better table ? My point is, that the great table just like MB does not need any punishable shots which will make you restart whole progress of Monsters of Rock, as it can create lot of rush in a different way.

 

[Fungi]

I've played a lot of MB, and I've never gotten the rush I got when attacking BFTK. Just because something is punishing, doesn't make it bad. Imagine removing outlanes on all tables. Less punishing, less interesting.

MB doesn't need the same punishment to be fun. But also, not every table needs to be like MB to be just as fun.

I'm saying, don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

[Locksley]

Good points Fungi.

Lets hope that Farsight incorperates the PAPA rusty spinner for the Johnny Mnemonic table when it gets released (yes, you heard it here first!...) that would put a stop to the spinner 'abuse' and make for a little more balanced table.

Adapt and improve

 

[PET3R]

I do agree with the outlanes but there has to be a line to what is acceptable. Imagine having the outlanes 3x wider therefore resulting in drains every few seconds. That does not mean it would give you more rush, it means you would not be bothered to play that table ever again. Once again here we are talking about early Melrin's shot which punishes you so much that apparently restarting the game would put you closer to a wizard mode. This is much worse than not hitting the super jackpot in AFM. Yes punishment is good sometimes but it stops being fun if it crosses the limits. I am sorry but I cannot make the table number 1 if it based on rush alone. Someone could say that Eight ball gives them lot of rush and we would have a big dilemma here. The scoring in Eight Ball is not fun as the last ball gives you x3 scoring, it does not have a wizard mode or any meat to eat and therefore it cannot be no.1 even though it can be very fun table and I do enjoy playing it from time to time as well.
I can bring MM back to top 10 but I hope you will agree with me that early Merlin's shot and repetitive castle bashing does not make this perfect pinball.

 

[Fungi]

I didn't realize we were talking about making it no.1. I was talking about not removing it from the top 10. To quote you,

"we are rating the tables on scoring system, layout and gameplay mainly. Table should be fun to play, have some meat to it or challenge but not overcomplicated rules. Sometimes beauty is in simplicty."

This is Medieval Madness.

The Merlin shot surely keeps it from No.1, but not from the top ten.

 

[PET3R]

Sorry for the confusion. I can definitely agree with you "The Merlin shot surely keeps it from No.1, but not from the top ten."
Where would you put MM in the ranking ? top 5 or top 10 ?

 

[Fungi]

Sorry for the confusion. I can definitely agree with you "The Merlin shot surely keeps it from No.1, but not from the top ten."
Where would you put MM in the ranking ? top 5 or top 10 ?

Ah, well that's a question that can be only be answered by players more advanced than I (of which there are MANY). It is just my opinion that MM was deserving of being somewhere in the mix.

 

[WhiteChocolate]

reading all this and trying to keep my big mouth shut, lol... because i am definitely no expert player! but too avid to not listen in to this cool super-serious shoptalk; totally geek out on that stuff...

here's my q from the peanut gallery: of course all us TPA players are familiar with the app's set table/wizard goals, but what denotes a real-life table's "wizard mode"? think i'm guessing accurately that this isn't something found in most/all older tables... not always really in newer tables, although the digital/computerized brains anymore will usually include a ruleset that makes for that...

is it something so expected and pronounced in modern tables that these tables will "announce themselves" when they enter that mode, or is it just something buried into the rule set, and it's up to you whether you know whether you are there or not? does it ever set some tablelight or backglass to let you know you've reached that level of play? certainly i've gotten a few times to monster bash, "monsters of rock" etc etc, but i don't ever remember a DMD going "WIZARD LEVEL!" or anything like that...

maybe that needs its own thread, but since it seems rel to know whatcha'yall saying here, thought i'd ask! appreciate any elucidations on that topic... maybe another thread has that answer already. just curious! (it makes me curious how i would design one myself; is a fascinating topic!)

 

[Crooker]

Ive never played TPA on PC only on iOS. Therefore I cannot comment on the differences in difficulty or nudging or any other subtleties that are apparent between the the platforms. Having said that, for me vikingeric is the defininative authority here regards to gameplay and knowledge of the various tables found in TPA.
Definitely the Merlin shot is friggin frustrating. Despite that, it is a table I continually come back to. Fairly deep rule set and just a fun table to play. Pretty good flow to the game with a defined goal in mind.
MB is a great table. As stated everything about the various stackable modes combined with the two "wizard goals" makes a player think his way through the game while being precise in their shotmaking.
The table I have a huge love for is ToM. That was the table that got me hooked on TPA. I know a lot of players here will not agree with me on this though. Really deep rule set with a lot to do. I can get a rhythm going.
Rbion and TZ would round out my top 5 with TAF being right there.
Although I'm not in v.e's or invitro's league here, I'm a fairly accomplished player,up to 23 on invitro's list and 4th or 5th for the iOS platform.
There are still many others here who's opinion I would love to hear on this fascinating subject. Tarek,Gus Eldar and Slam off the top of my head.
Anyway there's my 2cents for what it's worth. Cheers.

 

[PET3R]

Crooker, dont worry about ToM, it is good to have here players with their favourite tables as it means you know the table very well and can contribute with valid comments.
I think we will all agree that ToM can be really fun table, but in our ranking I guess the repetitive hitting of the trunk and some modes that are actually better to time would keep this from no.1 It was said somewhere that to get the biggest scores on this table you need to hit the left ramp repeatedly. As this is one of your favourites, could you comment a bit on that ? Could you also tell me what would be your ranking between ToM, TZ, TAF and RBION ? Don't forget what is our ranking based on. Does 2x score in RBION have really big significance ? Would your strategy solely involve 2x score if you wanted to beat your high score ?

 

[PET3R]

Ranking so far:
==========

1.Monster Bash

top 5 material
---------------
Addams Family
Star Trek Next Generation
Scared Stiff
Twilight Zone
Cactus Canyon

top 10 Material
---------------
Medieval Madness - due to early shot to Merlin's before trolls
Theatre of Magic - due to left ramp significance, timed out modes and repetitive trunk hitting
Ripleys Believe it or not - due to 2x scoring
Circus Voltaire
Creature from the black lagoon
Attack from Mars - due to super jackpot and 5 way combo significance
White Water - due to 3x Jackpot & Vacation Jackpot (class 6 river+3 locks)

Out of top 10
--------------
Terminator 2 - due to big importance of the gun
Arabian Nights - due to big importance of lamp scoring