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Message: <blockquote data-quote="shutyertrap" data-source="post: 292512" data-attributes="member: 134">No, I didn't. The words you failed to include in your quote were "In that first season". Creature and Monster Bash were in that first season, and we got it in Zen's first too. The two Elvira tables were also, but Zen hasn't done Scared Stiff probably because of how much they'd have to censor the table for the console market. If they ever get the ESRB bit fixed (really hope they are still working on that but I really don't know) then I'm sure Scared Stiff will become a reality. All the other tables you mentioned came as follows... T2 (s2), Dracula (s3), Addams Family (s4), Judge Dredd (s5), Indy 500 (s6), Doctor Who (s7). Do you see how you are comparing 6 more years of releases against one from Zen? And what FarSight was doing there was spending large money on one table and offsetting that cost with all the non licensed stuff. I suspect Zen will do better in this category, but even still, don't expect a flood of releases in any given year for licensed stuff.We didn't have any alternatives when FarSight had the license either, and they did alright by us I'd say! You seem to be operating under the assumption that Zen is going to lose the WMS license after this year, so they need to hurry hurry hurry and put out all the AAA titles we all want, like yesterday. I don't know if you noticed, but Zen has partnered with 1UP Arcade to produce 3/4 scale pinball machines for the home market. Those won't even hit the market until 3rd quarter of this year. FarSight partnered with ToyShock to put out a Gottlieb collection already, and has another wave also coming out later in the year. If anything I'd say digital pinball is on the upswing and the user base is only getting larger. Zen isn't going to let the WMS license go, not any time soon. If I were Scientific Games, I'd be looking at what Zen has done in year one, in terms of quality, finish, and extras, and be more than happy to continue that relationship.I'll get into the kickstarter response later in the post.Zen has on multiple occasions asked the community what their top picks for tables are. They are more than aware that Indiana Jones and TAF are typically near the top. I'm not sure I get your reasoning (as you failed to really provide any), but I think you are entirely wrong simply because you make no mention of how Zen has fared in this category with their original tables. Off the 78 (!) original tables they have done, only 18 carry no license. Put aside the Marvel and Star Wars tables for a moment (cuz those aren't huge licenses or anything) and think about this; they licensed Jurassic Park, ET, Jaws, and Back to the Future and didn't charge any more for them they did with all their other tables. They not only licensed Aliens, but they were able to use actual film dialogue, something that Heighway Pinball didn't even manage with their physical Alien table.You are raising the fire alarm when there's not even a sign of fire.Let me break this down for you. The Zen Pinball fans were quite happy with the 'only in digital' nature of the tables they were getting. When Zen posted that they had the Williams license, many of those fans said they had no interest in 'boring' pinball that did nothing special visually (which Zen took care of by use of the enhanced versions of tables) and had limited rules in comparison to Zen (clearly these people were not familiar with DMD era machines or felt only Stern pinball tables of the past few years were up to their standards). This was the audience Zen did not want to lose, as they were their core. If alphanumerics were introduced too early, that very core might have rejected the much simpler rules of those tables outright, and Zen had no idea how many of the TPA crowd they could count on to double dip on tables they already owned.What you are applying is the model FarSight used, mixing DMD with alphanumerics each release at the start. Funny thing is, that was purely a time and economics choice. They'd already made the table before in the Williams Hall of Fame collection, and were merely porting them over while developing the DMD title that accompanied it. FarSight was also operating under the premise that they'd make 2 seasons worth of tables and be done, not knowing themselves what kind of audience was out there. That's why those first 2 seasons were so front loaded. The Zen crowd has accepted the Williams tables though, and the TPA crowd has shown a willingness to repurchase, and on top of all that you have all the people that came late to TPA and digital pinball, didn't purchase a lot of the tables prior to license loss, and now are buying up everything FX3 has to offer. For this reason, the risk involved with alphanumerics is much less. I will say also that in terms of development costs for the studio, emulation of DMD era games and that of System 11 and prior is in fact different and each pose their own problems. It makes more sense to tackle one, solve all its problems, before tackling the next. TPA was riddled with bugs, and a lot of that stems from FarSight trying to do too much on too short a time frame. Zen realizes it's not a sprint, but a marathon. Quit being so paranoid! Understand the release history of Zen beyond this last year. You are absolutely worrying over nothing. Think about this too...as Zen has now partnered with 1UP, who is also dealing with a huge swathe of licensing for their arcade cabinets, there is power in pooling resources. Somehow 1UP managed to secure licensing for NBA Jam, that means dealing with the Player's Union and securing all those basketball player's and team's licensing, from back in the 90's. That was a Midway game (part of Bally) and came out around the same time as NBA Fastbreak. Logic dictates that Zen merely has to ask who 1UP got in contact with over at the NBA, make a call themselves and since one deal is already done, the gears have been greased to make another.The hardest part of licensing is not so much getting the deal done, as it is getting in contact with the people who can even make the deal happen. The reason not all the music is in Creature is not for lack of paying, it's for lack of the license holders even being found. FarSight did a great job making all the contacts they did, Zen is even better at licensing, and since deals were made once, it'll only be easier getting in contact the second time. Hopefully bridges weren't burned from anything FarSight did in TPA, but I doubt it.There were 60 tables in total that FarSight did. We now have 18 of those. Will they get to all 60 of them? Good question. I believe we'll see a few that FarSight never did themselves, a few that won't make the cut and nobody will really miss, but I think it's safe to say we'll hit 50 tables when all is said and done, at least. That would be 2 years more, and by that time Zen might have grabbed the Stern license and will want to move onto that. I mean are you really going to be sad if Firepower II, Gorgar, and Spanish Eyes are left behind in favor of Metallica or Tron?So you just want Zen to slap something together, quality and presentation be damned? That's not how they work. I also think they see way more potential in this 3/4 scale pinball market than VR. Pinball is a social game, and VR is very much being in isolation to the real world around you. I know it sucks to have spent all that money on a VR rig, but numbers are numbers. Zen is going to put money into whatever makes financial sense for the studio, not into what will make a small community happy.Well then, be prepared to be impressed. The conversations I've had with Zen coincide with my whole outlook on kickstarters like what FarSight did; it's a bad look to the license holders and cheapens your negotiating power as a studio. As far as Zen is concerned, it is up to them to figure out how to pay for things, not the customer. They've done it every time in the past, the price difference has been slight (like only getting 2 tables instead of 3), and it eases the apprehension of IP holders in doing business with you.Look at the last 2 Kickstarters FarSight did; Doctor Who and AC/DC. Doctor Who, a beloved brand of the BBC, in existence for decades, at an apex in popularity here in America, almost failed to get funded. That is a bad look to the BBC, as they know their brand is popular, but now there's a crack in their armor when licensing to other companies who may look at the lack of excitement in crowd sourcing to say hey, the cost should be lower. Then comes AC/DC that within the first 2 days of the campaign was looking even more anemic, so Oculus stepped in and bought the license right there, closing the Kickstarter campaign immediately, thus negating how much damage could be done to the band's name. You really think any IP holder was going to be excited to come to terms with FarSight in the future? They made it that much harder on themselves.Do you think Disney would let Zen continue to make Star Wars tables if each one had to be crowd sourced? No way, it's damaging to both brands. Instead Zen has proved themselves so capable that Disney let them do a months long campaign for Star Wars Pinball, to come announce at Celebration, to be the first SW title on the Switch, and to be sold as a 1UP pinball machine. Any other IP holder will look at that relationship with the 900 pound gorilla that is Disney and think to themselves, yeah, we can work with Zen for sure!----------------I get the concern you have. Having the rug pulled out from under FarSight really ratcheted up everyone's paranoia. I've not had one conversation with the Zen team that makes me feel the least bit apprehensive. There was an interview recently done with Bobby from FarSight where he said he hopes to get the license back, and that is just laughable at this point in time. If anything it'd be nice if TPA could once again be allowed to sell what they had made, and I kinda think that is what Bobby was inferring, but I don't think they'll ever make another new Williams table and Zen is only just getting started.</blockquote>

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