Why are most, if not all, Gottliebs mediocre at best?

[HotHamBoy]

And usually kind of crap? In addition to the tables in TPA, I've encountered a fair share of IRL Gottliebs and have never been impressed. And is it just me or are all the Premiere sound packages really bland and samey?

EMs might be a different story, I haven't played many of those.

 

[shutyertrap]

I have yet to be impressed by a single Gottlieb table unless it WAS an EM. And then we're talking about being impressed by something with very limited rule sets.

Been playing TX Sector today, and to me it just blows. People were falling over themselves about how awesome the sound package was, but it's really just a bunch of noise that helps you with the table in no way. On top of that, it's not even better than Xenon's sound package. The problem with this table, and things like Victory or Lights, Camera...Action, is that you are doing the same limited shots over and over. No combos, no hurry-ups, no flow. Worse, nothing carries over ball to ball which means every ball is it's own progression and once you lose it, back to square one.

I really wish FarSight would just give up on any Gottlieb that isn't an EM. All you fans of theirs, suck it. I don't believe you anymore that any of these tables are good, or as often heard, "one of the better Gottliebs". I've played Freddy, I've played Stargate, I've played Gladiator, they all are boring suck fests! I was promised I'd change my tune when LAH, R:911, and now TX came out. Nopedy nope nope.

I mean, I'm always harping about how awesome Rollergames sounds, but you know what? There's also a solid game with a bunch of shots to do! I don't care how interesting a layout is if the rules for shooting on it are a snooze fest. And Gottlieb Premiere titles have crappy uninteresting rules.

 

[steven120566]

I have yet to be impressed by a single Gottlieb table unless it WAS an EM. And then we're talking about being impressed by something with very limited rule sets.

Been playing TX Sector today, and to me it just blows. People were falling over themselves about how awesome the sound package was, but it's really just a bunch of noise that helps you with the table in no way. On top of that, it's not even better than Xenon's sound package. The problem with this table, and things like Victory or Lights, Camera...Action, is that you are doing the same limited shots over and over. No combos, no hurry-ups, no flow. Worse, nothing carries over ball to ball which means every ball is it's own progression and once you lose it, back to square one.

I really wish FarSight would just give up on any Gottlieb that isn't an EM. All you fans of theirs, suck it. I don't believe you anymore that any of these tables are good, or as often heard, "one of the better Gottliebs". I've played Freddy, I've played Stargate, I've played Gladiator, they all are boring suck fests! I was promised I'd change my tune when LAH, R:911, and now TX came out. Nopedy nope nope.

I mean, I'm always harping about how awesome Rollergames sounds, but you know at? There's also a solid game with a bunch of shots to do! I don't care how interesting a layout is if the rules for shooting on it are a snooze fest. And Gottlieb Premiere titles have crappy uninteresting rules.

LOL this cracked me up. I agree, though. I rarely fire up any Gottlieb table.

 

[jaredmorgs]

I was promised I'd change my tune when LAH, R:911, and now TX came out. Nopedy nope nope.

LAH = Last Action Hero? That's a Data East.

Everything else I agree with.

 

[invitro]

The problem with this table, and things like Victory or Lights, Camera...Action, is that you are doing the same limited shots over and over. No combos, no hurry-ups, no flow. Worse, nothing carries over ball to ball which means every ball is it's own progression and once you lose it, back to square one.

I am 90% with you, and props for giving reasons. So I hope you don't mind if I note that this isn't true for Victory, which is all about hurry-ups, and is very much about combos depending on how you play it. And the Bonus X carries over from ball to ball.

Class of 1812 has some hurry-ups and flow, too. I don't remember if anything big carries from ball to ball.

I really wish FarSight would just give up on any Gottlieb that isn't an EM. All you fans of theirs, suck it. I don't believe you anymore that any of these tables are good, or as often heard, "one of the better Gottliebs". I've played Freddy, I've played Stargate, I've played Gladiator, they all are boring suck fests! I was promised I'd change my tune when LAH, R:911, and now TX came out. Nopedy nope nope.

I mean, I'm always harping about how awesome Rollergames sounds, but you know what? There's also a solid game with a bunch of shots to do! I don't care how interesting a layout is if the rules for shooting on it are a snooze fest. And Gottlieb Premiere titles have crappy uninteresting rules.

I think someone was hitting the sauce tonight, I love it . LAH is Data East, though.

Premiers suck, sure. I think the thing I dislike the most about them is the most basic thing -- their shots feel rotten. Every shot on Rescue 911 (my current pick for worst table in TPA) feels horrible. Their art, sound, and DMD stuff are embarrassingly bad. Their rules are crappy, but I don't know if I'd call them uninteresting... they're often bizarre, in a usually bad way. (My complaints don't apply to Stargate, or the tables after it, that I've never played or don't remember well.)

You realize that 3 of the last 5 TPA tables have been Gottliebs? I remember when lots of people here were saying we need more Gottliebs about half a year ago, when it sorta looked like Farsight was done with them. Nope.

I still would like to see Stargate and anything after it, well maybe in a year or two, hopefully Farsight will take it easy on the G's for a while. Especially since they're adding Alvin G. as a manufacturer, and (I think) Capcom too, which should compensate for losing Stern (and probably Sega and DE) to SPA.

(Oh, I love Genie, and like Black Hole and even Haunted House OK, and wouldn't mind seeing another Gottlieb table from around 1978-1982 if it's like these, in a few years.)

 

[Tarek Oberdieck]

Not without a reason Bally and Williams were leading in the pinball market in the nineties years. I would say Tee'd Off is a good exception from Gottlieb.

 

[Kolchak357]

I really love the Gottliebs from the 1970's. But if you are talking only SS, then some of my favorites are:

Haunted House
Stargate
Devil's Dare
The Amazing Spiderman
James Bond 007 (more of a theme thing for me)
TX-Sector
Volcano
Monte Carlo
Spirit
Nightmare on Elm St

I prefer Bally & Williams SS pins for sure, but there are a lot I am happy to play.

 

[Spork98765]

This topic cracks me up every time.

Couple it with all the anxiety about seasons after 6 and you have the perfect storm to sell back to FarSights marketing dept. re: the lack of tables remaining that will sell.

 

[DopedToInfinity]

I agree with the OP, but I have no problems with gottliebs. I don't play tables for hours and learn every rule. I view TPA like an arcade and have the odd game on a table here and there on iOS and PS4. If a table sucks it might hold my attention for a day or two, but I always have the ones I keep going back to. The only real turd of a gottlieb is R911, i think that held my attention for an evening and that was it. I like the variety of manufacturers, and for £4 a pop at just under the price of a pint I'll give any table a try, even AG soccer which looks pretty crap.

 

[shutyertrap]

Gah, I didn't mean LAH but LCA! I dislike Data East tables for other reasons

And no, I didn't mean to make it seem I was saying Victory has no flow or hurry ups. Late night ranting, the writing got sloppy. Victory is an oddly addictive bad table. If you threw in WMS rules and modes, it'd be really good.

I think Black Hole and Genie are fine examples of Gottlieb doing it right, but that's the carry over from their EM days of design.

 

[kinggo]

is that you are doing the same limited shots over and over. No combos, no hurry-ups, no flow. Worse, nothing carries over ball to ball which means every ball is it's own progression and once you lose it, back to square one.

this... mostly. With few exceptions for better or for worse.
As an example (most likely not the best one), on TX one has to grind those drop targets forever and when MB finally happens, balls drain just like that and you end up with nothing. On very simple High Speed it is easier to lock balls and get MB then score at least one jackpot. After that it is all over again but you fell good about that jackpot while on TX you file like

 

[relaxation]

With TX-Sector you have to play it like City of Gold, it's all about extra balls to collect obscene bonus points.. but with TX-Sector the bonus is continiously building everytime you max the mega-level and start multiball or during multiball.

I was up to ~3M in bonus, all I had to do was shoot the rear spinner 5 times or less and start multiball, collect eb then drain and do it all over again. Holding a ball in the plunger is great if you need to build up the bonus and just shoot the rear spinner (where the spot target is).

of course that probably can't be done too easily on real machines but I haven't been close to any in over a decade.

 

[gordonabrown]

I don't mind them so much in TPA though they are certainly a far-cry from what other companies were producing at the time.

That being said they are terrible to play in real life. Mind you I've only played Shaq Attack (which was in terrible condition), Super Mario (not too bad actually), and LCA but they don't have a whole lot going on.

 

[Bowflex]

I like TX Sector alright. It has an almost EM feel to it much like Black Hole which is also enjoyable to me. Then I realize it is from 1988 and it just blows my mind and shows a big issue of Gottlieb's; the company is completely backwards. Everything about this table feels like it should have been released in 1982, aside from the warping balls. The art is very late 70's (Like Superman the movie) and the theme seems kind of 70's sci-fi. The only non-EM game I was ever really hoping for is Stargate. Rescue 911 is very average and I never quite got why so many people wanted it so bad, although it's better than anything else that was left from the more modern Gottliebs and they at least shelled out some money for a licensing than doing yet another cheesy blatant theme rip off.

 

[mmmagnetic]

I just can´t deal with those "sharp angle" flippers. When I first played Cue Ball Wizard I thought I was having a stroke because I simply missed every single shot, until I noticed how high those flippers go in the up position.

On tables like LCA, 911 or TX, the ball always seems to be bouncing back to you from a target, never really getting in the groove of zipping around the playfield with any kind of flow. Too many shots are dead ends, not enough orbits or ramps for my taste.

911 at least has some fantastic music, way better than the (in my eyes) overrated TX, and generally an interesting theme and good production values. But generally speaking, yeah, they feel like on a whole lower level than the other companies. It really makes me appreciate what I took for granted in the other designs, and how many evolutionary steps they have been through to deliver such polished and fine-tuned experiences.

 

[kinggo]

I like TX Sector alright. It has an almost EM feel to it much like Black Hole which is also enjoyable to me. Then I realize it is from 1988 and it just blows my mind and shows a big issue of Gottlieb's; the company is completely backwards. Everything about this table feels like it should have been released in 1982, aside from the warping balls. The art is very late 70's (Like Superman the movie) and the theme seems kind of 70's sci-fi. The only non-EM game I was ever really hoping for is Stargate. Rescue 911 is very average and I never quite got why so many people wanted it so bad, although it's better than anything else that was left from the more modern Gottliebs and they at least shelled out some money for a licensing than doing yet another cheesy blatant theme rip off.

well, it was actually just one guy here and he disappeared in the meantime. I think Dokken was his nick.

 

[Rudy Yagov]

I actually do like a lot of Gottlieb/Premier games. I won't deny that Williams and Bally are better, and in real life I've only ever owned Williams machines. That said, pinball is pinball, and I usually find at least something to like on nearly every machine I play.

However, I must say that TX-Sector absolutely sucks. I firmly believe that people only care about it because of that CGR video. I see absolutely no appeal in that game. Even the music is overrated as hell. The majority of WMS System 11 games blow it out of the water with that mighty Yamaha 2151 FM synth chip.

 

[dtown8532]

The only thing I don't like about TXS is when I "power drain."

 

[trunchbull]

Early Gottlieb tables are fine, but everything after the acquisition by Premier (or establishment of Premier) is super cheesy and cheap. There's something about Bally/Williams tables that have a certain finesse (smooth orbits, nice ramps, clean art, well-thought-out humor and theme) that's lacking from Premier tables. I always feel like I'm playing an early whitewood that accidentally fell onto the production line.

 

[David T. Melnick]

And usually kind of crap? In addition to the tables in TPA, I've encountered a fair share of IRL Gottliebs and have never been impressed. And is it just me or are all the Premiere sound packages really bland and samey?

EMs might be a different story, I haven't played many of those.

-----
In my opinion, ems are way better than the newer ones.