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Other Zen Pinball Games & General Discussion
Williams' Collection Volume 5 impressions
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<blockquote data-quote="Cloda" data-source="post: 291836" data-attributes="member: 7520"><p>I guess you won't be surprised to hear that I disagree with you on this point. The iterations of physics I'm talking about is between Vol 1-5, with Universal Monsters in-between. They have all been designed and tweaked by Deep from Zen studios so I don't know why you say it is not from the same developer. Zen has indicated what they have changed between each release with the most notable being the introduction of the flipper physics for Volume 4 and then the heavier ball (after Spacies Arcades "marble physics" video). I play this game a heck of a lot - only game I play - and I play maybe 1-2 hours a day late at night if I can get the kids settled in time and I'm not too tired. I have (or had last I played the table) Top 10 Classic Arcade scores on all the Williams tables I have played so far (still remaining are the new ones, Fish Tales, Black Rose, Safe Cracker, and The Champion Pub). I can tell you (or you can see for yourself as all my top games are on Youtube), exactly which flipper tricks I am able to do on each of the Volumes / UM, and what changed between them (in fact, I started another thread on that a couple of weeks ago). It was glaringly obvious to me when I started Creature of the Black Lagoon for the first time, that it is suddenly way too predictable relative to the previous Volume. On the extreme side we have Attack from Mars, where if you take your eyes off the flipper at the wrong time while the ball is still in motion, it is gone! On Creature, the ball dropping from the bumpers on the right flipper is so predictable in what it is going to do, that I can already start looking around what I'm going to do next, before I have even caught the ball... and I can do it for a long time. Up until Vol 4, that was not the case, and you had to work at bringing the ball under control. Now loosing the ball, is as a result of you loosing concentration, and not the game forcing you into it as can be expected from a machine set up to make money in an Arcade. So, I'm not expecting 1:1 to a real pin, but I have seen how Zen has moved closer and closer to the real deal from it playing way too difficult, and now they have actually started going into the opposite direction where it is beginning to play way too easy. Subjective perhaps, but I have put enough time and effort into this game to have good reasons to say what I'm saying. I can further, and I have done so, compare each of Zen's recreations with actual gameplay, and these differences and the shift between getting closer and then moving further away is also there to be seen. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Also, what the other guy is talking about, is the actual speed that the flipper drops after it starts moving, irrespective of when it actually start moving. The movement speed of the flipper returning to the rest position is sluggish. Nothing to do with lag in that case.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cloda, post: 291836, member: 7520"] I guess you won't be surprised to hear that I disagree with you on this point. The iterations of physics I'm talking about is between Vol 1-5, with Universal Monsters in-between. They have all been designed and tweaked by Deep from Zen studios so I don't know why you say it is not from the same developer. Zen has indicated what they have changed between each release with the most notable being the introduction of the flipper physics for Volume 4 and then the heavier ball (after Spacies Arcades "marble physics" video). I play this game a heck of a lot - only game I play - and I play maybe 1-2 hours a day late at night if I can get the kids settled in time and I'm not too tired. I have (or had last I played the table) Top 10 Classic Arcade scores on all the Williams tables I have played so far (still remaining are the new ones, Fish Tales, Black Rose, Safe Cracker, and The Champion Pub). I can tell you (or you can see for yourself as all my top games are on Youtube), exactly which flipper tricks I am able to do on each of the Volumes / UM, and what changed between them (in fact, I started another thread on that a couple of weeks ago). It was glaringly obvious to me when I started Creature of the Black Lagoon for the first time, that it is suddenly way too predictable relative to the previous Volume. On the extreme side we have Attack from Mars, where if you take your eyes off the flipper at the wrong time while the ball is still in motion, it is gone! On Creature, the ball dropping from the bumpers on the right flipper is so predictable in what it is going to do, that I can already start looking around what I'm going to do next, before I have even caught the ball... and I can do it for a long time. Up until Vol 4, that was not the case, and you had to work at bringing the ball under control. Now loosing the ball, is as a result of you loosing concentration, and not the game forcing you into it as can be expected from a machine set up to make money in an Arcade. So, I'm not expecting 1:1 to a real pin, but I have seen how Zen has moved closer and closer to the real deal from it playing way too difficult, and now they have actually started going into the opposite direction where it is beginning to play way too easy. Subjective perhaps, but I have put enough time and effort into this game to have good reasons to say what I'm saying. I can further, and I have done so, compare each of Zen's recreations with actual gameplay, and these differences and the shift between getting closer and then moving further away is also there to be seen. Also, what the other guy is talking about, is the actual speed that the flipper drops after it starts moving, irrespective of when it actually start moving. The movement speed of the flipper returning to the rest position is sluggish. Nothing to do with lag in that case. [/QUOTE]
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