The lesser of 2 evils??

So I've mentioned here and there about the problems I have with my TV and displaying of both TPA and Zen. Thought I'd put a visual reference out there. Mine is a Pioneer Elite 53" rear projection TV that is 12 years old. It can only display HD in 1080i, otherwise it drops down to 480p.

The short story of this is, my TV has pretty bad overscan. This means it is cutting off the picture all around the edges. That means in TPA, I often have a hard time seeing what the score display says. For Zen, a game that is only 720p, not only does it drop in resolution to 480, but it also squeezes top and bottom for a letterboxing, making for fat pinballs.

Now for some visuals...



On the left, TPA running Taxi. I pretty much can't even read the top line of the score. On the right, Zen running Sorcerers Lair. I highlighted the black bars into green so you can see the letterboxing effect better.

TPA running in HD certainly looks better than Zen in standard def. After a while, I get used to the squeeze on Zen, but that's a lot of screen real estate not being used. By the way, the screen isn't really that washed out. Brightened it up in photoshop so you could see what is screen and what is TV cabinet.

So would either of these scenarios be a deal breaker to you? I know playing Taxi, Party Monsters, and Harley are some of my least played partly due to the score being cut off. I stopped buying Zen tables because the letterboxing and standard def picture were annoying.

What sort of inputs are you using?

component RGB. No HDMI on this TV

Does it have a DVI port?

If it was me I think I would just press triangle and turn off the score and try to get used to that. I don't think I check the score too often while playing so I think it wouldn't be too tough to get used to.

You should put one of those configurable screen size options in the 5 things we want thread.

Whoa, how did you get Taxi to look that good. Is it a PS3 thing?

Lord Boron said:

Does it have a DVI port?

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No. It has an RGB port, like what computer monitors used to use. A long time back (talking PS2 days) I tried using an adapter from Japan to work through there, but no dice. Honestly though, what would it matter? The TV is simply incapable of rendering 720p or 1080p. Back then, 1080i was thought to be the way to go. One of the reasons the overscan is bad is there wasn't an agreed upon format yet for HD signals when the TV came out. So it used to be that I never noticed any of the image being clipped, because everyone was using a TV 'safe' framing. As flat panels killed the RPTV market, the outer boundaries got pushed and that's when I started noticing graphics and screen tickers being cut off. Sports were notorious for having their scores cut clean in half on the top or bottom of my screen.

I never had an issue with video games on the PS2, but the PS3 gave me some rude awakenings. As much as I love the Grand Theft Auto series, I never was able to play GTA IV because the mission text was often clean off my screen. Currently with the new Playstation Store, I can't see the words at the top of the screen for Cart, Search, and whatever else it actually says!

grashopper said:

If it was me I think I would just press triangle and turn off the score and try to get used to that. I don't think I check the score too often while playing so I think it wouldn't be too tough to get used to.

You should put one of those configurable screen size options in the 5 things we want thread.

Click to expand...

I thought about that, and I even mentioned it to the guys at FS when I visited. Ultimately though, I'm the 1% that is suffering with that, so it'd be a complete waist of their resources to put in a configurable screen option.

Sumez said:

Whoa, how did you get Taxi to look that good. Is it a PS3 thing?

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Haha. Funny. Sure beats your black screen on the Xbox, huh?

Would you mind posting the model number?
Bit curious to download a manual

Edit: So many games seem to have one. I'm sure you aren't the only one that would benefit. Even though mine doesn't seem to chop too bad it's nice to have the screen size option to have the game as it was intended.
I always like seeing them.
Doesn't seem like it would be too tough to implement.

Have you done a search online for the code or procedure to get into the TV's tech menu? Often there are adjustments in there for overscan that might not be in the consumer menu. If you can't find your exact model sometimes a manufacturer uses the same or similar procedure across their lines.

No ZOOM options on the TV? CV would be my go to game if I had that problem next would be UPGRADE! Hell check CL for 1.

Well, if you do decide to upgrade, the good news is that you can get a lot more bang for your buck now compared to when you bought that beast.

Shut, If it were me in your situation ,

RGB cable for the PS3 is what you're using currently? correct? hmmm , so there is no way to adapt RGB to HDMI ?
So this would not work?

http://www.cecompass.com/hdmi-hdtv-...tore=default&gclid=CJOay8HQoLUCFc6DQgodVRoAFw

or this?

http://us.dinodirect.com/hdmi-to-vg...6&source=sem&gclid=CICCz4DRoLUCFQhyQgod3CQAGg
The trick is sometimes use a proxy signal device , like a cable TV box or TV adapter with HDMI in /out and plug your game console into it and use it to broadcast to the TV .
Another possible answer is to get a digital video recorder convertor , such as people use to record their games and TV shows and use it as proxy. (not a cheap option)

Sinistar said:

Shut, If it were me in your situation ,

RGB cable for the PS3 is what you're using currently? correct? hmmm , so there is no way to adapt RGB to HDMI ?
So this would not work?

http://www.cecompass.com/hdmi-hdtv-...tore=default&gclid=CJOay8HQoLUCFc6DQgodVRoAFw

or this?

http://us.dinodirect.com/hdmi-to-vg...6&source=sem&gclid=CICCz4DRoLUCFQhyQgod3CQAGg
The trick is sometimes use a proxy signal device , like a cable TV box or TV adapter with HDMI in /out and plug your game console into it and use it to broadcast to the TV .
Another possible answer is to get a digital video recorder convertor , such as people use to record their games and TV shows and use it as proxy. (not a cheap option)

Click to expand...

Even if those would work I don't understand how they'd solve the overscan problem.

brakel said:

Even if those would work I don't understand how they'd solve the overscan problem.

Click to expand...

Exactly, they wouldn't. And again, they wouldn't solve the problem with Zen, because it needs 720p. If no 720, it drops down to 480i (the only game I've ever come across to do that).

As for the model of my tv, it's a Pioneer Elite Pro510 HD. There is a way to adjust the overscan in the service menu, but it's extremely easy to brick the tv in that menu, as it is nothing but code. Even if I was successful with that, I'd have to do a readjust on the gamma. The other way to fix it is to raise the 3 guns up 1 inch. That involves refocusing and a complete fix on the geometry of the set. Believe me guys, I've investigated. Over on the AVS Forum there is an entire thread on my TV, over 500 pages long. RPTV ownership turned out to be something for a hobbiest, as I should have been recalibrating the picture every other year, cleaning the optics every year, and now my black level needs resetting. It could look absolutely stunning if I had the calibration equipment, or hired the one guy left in the country who is still willing to touch these sets. He's up in Frisco, and the quote he gave me to fix my set up brand new was $1400. Sure, I paid $5500 for it 12 years ago, but c'mon. Or for 2 grand I could get me a 70" 3D SmartTV. Not that I can afford that right now either though.

Unfortunately for me, I'm kinda a stickler about what my next TV will be. My 53 incher looks small in my big living room. When I bought it I was in a townhouse, and that was as big as I could fit through the door! Now I'll settle for nothing smaller than 60". I want 3D, but I'd prefer the passive glasses, as I wear glasses and will just get a prescription 3D rather than wear glasses over my glasses as active shutter glasses will make me. I'm also adamant about having black blacks. So yeah, I'll suffer with what I have rather than purchase something new that doesn't quite meet my standards even though it's more affordable. Am I the only one that uses that kind of logic? Where it's if I can't have what I want, I'd rather have nothing at all?

shutyertrap said:

Haha. Funny. Sure beats your black screen on the Xbox, huh?

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It also looks better than any existing table on Xbox!
Does it really look that "real", or is it just a "lucky photo"?

Sumez said:

It also looks better than any existing table on Xbox!
Does it really look that "real", or is it just a "lucky photo"?

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It's actually a pretty bad photo. Took during the daytime, which on my TV means the sun is washing out the screen. At night it looks much better, but Taxi has some fairly muted coloring going on compared to the mobile version. Now that I'm playing TZ on PS3, Taxi, NGG, and Harley look downright anemic.

Sony HMZ-T2 but for that price you could get a nice HDTV or wait out this generation and 3D and get 4K in about 5 years when prices drop. What would you rather have a TV or a REAL ROLLERGAMES for $1100?

SKILL_SHOT said:

Sony HMZ-T2 but for that price you could get a nice HDTV or wait out this generation and 3D and get 4K in about 5 years when prices drop. What would you rather have a TV or a REAL ROLLERGAMES for $1100?

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TV! My first love is movies and television, and the ability to play games on the television. As much as I love pinball, one table ain't gonna do the trick!

I'd love the Sharp Elite 70", but no way am I forking over that kind of coin again. Since I want passive 3D, it's gonna have to be an LG or Vizio set. But hey, in 2 years (when I'll hopefully be able to afford one again) maybe OLED will have dropped in price, and those will be passive 3D too.