Hey Farsight, Take a Break!

August, September, October, November, December.

Assuming Addams Family is the December table. That leaves 3 months to release the final Gottlieb and Williams tables that are WORTH releasing (IMO that's Ace High, T'eed Off, and Sorcerer) alongside whatever new tables they have planned.

Then when January hits... take 1 or 2 months off. Seriously. Addams Family and 40 other tables are fine for right now.

Run some sales on the DLC that's out. Get some new pro menus out for older releases. But most importantly, take these two months to focus on this very, very important thing:

BUG FIXES and UPDATES

Let me say that again:

BUG FIXES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????!!!!!!XXXXXX!!!!!!!!!!!#@$&$%#^%^%&!!!! and UPDATES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????!!!!!@#E$#%#$#$^#$^#$

Theatre of Magic and Cirqus Voiltaire are still two of my absolute favorite games in the Pinball Arcade. And rightfully so. However, Theatre hasn't been touched in ages. The ball physics are extremely floaty, the rubbers too bouncy, none of the new enhancements to flipper or ball physics have been implemented, and the magna saves fail 70% of the time. As for Cirqus well, do I really need to get into the issues with that table?

If you took the time to make these right, you could also release pro modes for them. So not only would you make us happy, you'd also make some money as well.

Right now here are the tables that are in serious needs of an update, in order of importance: Cirqus Voltaire, Monster Bash, Theatre of Magic, Medieval Madness, Ripley's Believe it or Not.

Here are the tables that still need rom emulation: Black Knight, Black Hole, Firepower, Gorgar.

Please correct me if I'm missing anything.

Of course there are other odds and ends. Small bug fixes on many tables and this and that. But again, it's time to polish what's been released so far. Because quite frankly I'm getting really tired of these broken promises. Cirqus Voiltaire was talked about like, 2 Bobby Questions Interviews ago.

Again if you took the time to polish these, you could package in pro modes for the tables as well. Making it a win win for everyone. Hell throw some ball skins in there, I'll buy them. Whatever it takes.

Then in February or March get back to business as usual.

Is there anyone on this board who disagrees with me? Speak now or forever hold your peace. And if you agree then chime in!

BTW I'm approaching 1000 posts

I've brought this up before and someone brought to my attention that every month the DLC is what puts the food on the table so to speak for Farsight.

Well... considering the PC version is almost ready to go, the PS4 and Wii U versions are almost ready, and the Xbox 360 DLC is finally dropping: That's a CONSIDERABLE pay day if you ask me, when these all get released. And as I said, if that's not enough new revenue, pro menus and ball skins for the older tables would also bring in some more cash. Finally, after you do a "final" bug and physics update to older machines, you can sell the machine off and make even more money for yourselves.

Also you could release a new video or two...

And Addams Family well... I have a feeling once that releases Pinball Arcade is going to have a MASSIVE surge and tons of new customers who will, you guessed it, want to check out the 40 other tables already released by that point.

So there' ya go. A pre-argument to counter that particular counter argument, pre-countering the counter counter. Errm what? Yes.

There's a photo of the FarSight staff in the Pinball Magazine, at the start of the interview with Bobby King. There's about 20 of them in the photo.

If FarSight takes 2 months off to concentrate wholly on bug fixes and updates as you suggest, where will the money come from to pay these men and women in the meantime, so that they can keep roofs over their families' heads and bread on their tables?

EDIT: And the studio has not seen a single red cent from the 360 version (because Crave never paid FarSight) nor the PC version. The original business plan certainly did not anticipate on 2 platforms' revenue being absent for this long. So that "payday" might just be getting them back to the expected status quo, and not be a windfall for them.

I just don't see it happening. Taking two months off is like saying not to take your paycheck for two months. They need to keep the money rolling in to keep the business going. Maybe once they start seeing income from Xbox and PC sales, it might be possible to put an extra week in between a few DLC packs in order to tackle some of the bigger fixes. But I'm guessing that is a best case scenario. I get where you are coming from and rom emulation on some of the scripted tables is something I really want too. And I've practically quite playing CV. I'd love the fixes you suggest but I don't think they will take a month or two off to do them.

Edit: Sorry to sound like a Sean echo. He must type faster. I also paused during typing this to watch a segment of Paranormal Witness about werewolves.

Personally, I'd be better off with the following schedule:

August through September: Normal schedule.

October through Novenber: One new table, major fix to a previous table.

December: Well done, Thing, you're really on the ball!

January through February: Same as the past two months.

March on: Back to normal.

Mark, I agree with you, but without all the punctuation

However, as a non-employee of FarSight, I don't know what they're doing with their resources, nor do I know what their business priorities are. I doubt that anyone here (other than our blue-fonted FS friends) can give us an accurate TPA priority list, not to mention that such a disclosure may not be a sound business decision.

I do know that FarSight's business plan works for them. If not, they would change it.

I'd also wager that a significant majority* of TPA players:
- don't notice most of the bugs that drive us forum peeps crazy,
- don't realize that they're actually bugs as opposed to table features/anomalies,
- don't care about them because they happen infrequently enough to just start a new game, and/or
- would rather have two new tables every month instead of having all the bugs fixed.

If I had my druthers I would want FarSight to choose ("cheap" and "good") or ("fast" and "good") from the three choices in the Project Management Triangle, but they've apparently chosen ("cheap" and "fast") as it (allegedly) makes most of the people happy most of the time.

So, do I wish they'd fix all the bugs? Yep. Will I throw away TPA if they don't fix existing bugs? Nope. Will I stop buying tables if the quality stays the same? Nope - I can work (or play, as it were) around most of the existing bugs. Will I stop buying tables if the QC deteriorates? Yep.

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* my significant majority would include the ~95% of TPA players that would fall within two standard deviations from the mean "fanaticism value" of all players. Active forum members are part of the top 2.2% of the bell curve, and the people that try the game and don't like it are the bottom 2.2%.

To Sean and Kolchak: Don't you think that is sort of silly?

So if stopping DLC for two months will put Farsight out of business... um... how did Farsight Studios survive then between 2008 and 2012 since that's the time between the release of Williams and Pinball Arcade?

Also you're ignoring what I said about pro modes, ball skins, sales on older DLC, videos, sales of the physical pinball machines themselves, Wii U, and PS4 versions of the games.

DeeEff said:

* my significant majority would include the ~95% of TPA players that would fall within two standard deviations from the mean "fanaticism value" of all players. Active forum members are part of the top 2.2% of the bell curve, and the people that try the game and don't like it are the bottom 2.2%.

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This is an excellent point, and one that I think we (myself included) fail to appreciate as much as we should. The average forum member (minus the invaders) is far more knowledgable and passionate about pinball than the average TPA player, but there are a lot more average TPA players out there. So while our input and feedback might be comparatively more useful to FarSight, we are not the ones bringing home the bacon as it were (except on their kickstarters...I'd bet we represent at least a majority of dollars pledged).

Mark Wyda said:

To Sean and Kolchak: Don't you think that is sort of silly?

So if stopping DLC for two months will put Farsight out of business... um... how did Farsight Studios survive then between 2008 and 2012 since that's the time between the release of Williams and Pinball Arcade?

Also you're ignoring what I said about pro modes, ball skins, sales on older DLC, videos, sales of the physical pinball machines themselves, Wii U, and PS4 versions of the games.

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No, I don't think that's silly; I think that's planning. Any software house worth their salt will set aside profit from one project to get them through the development period for the next. Yet another reason why FarSight can't just stop releasing DLC for two months...some of that money needs to go into the reserve pool for whatever FarSight's next project will be after TPA.

I still think it would make more sense to request that FS add an additional developer to their staff to focus solely on post-release fixes and optimization.

Financially it makes more sense because there would be no revenue stream interruption and the cost would only be a small incremental recurring amount.

Logistically it makes more sense because that developer would be specialized in that task and their efforts could be integrated into the regular release process without a great deal of change to how everyone else functions. Having production stop to only do bug fixes would have some staff members whose jobs wouldn't relate to bug fixing either sitting idle or attempting to contribute in a different way (which might work or might not).

I too hope they spend time to improve older tables. They constantly updated before as community's loud voices but not any more lately. There are - in my opinion - too many platforms to cover and as they produce new tables, more and more new problmes will be on the already too big todo list. I'm skeptical if they'll ever have to time for except latest released tables so is my hope.

DeeEff,i agree with you.i am the same age as Barbie doll,and I can tell you I have played a lot of pinnies over the years. iknow there are bugs,but us Aussies have a saying,NO WORRIES MATE SHE`S APPLES !!!

As far as asking FarSight to fix issues and bugs, I learned a new quote yesterday: deal with it.

"- don't care about them because they happen infrequently enough to just start a new game, and/or
- would rather have two new tables every month instead of having all the bugs fixed. "

I fall in here...bugs get fixed as they figure out the cause and they try not to introduce

Lets face it. Games have bugs. Some are never fixed

http://www.1up.com/features/worst-video-game-glitches

It's also not limited to small developers who "bite off more than they can chew" and yes...some are quite game breaking.

Farsight has fixed more bugs in TPA alone than EA even tries to fix or acknowldedges (except through humour...google the "Hercules Hit")

Mark Wyda said:

I feel the same.

No developer does what Farsight does. Even gigantic companies like EA would be hard pressed to tackle this many platforms with monthly DLC. I almost want to say it's an industry first.

On the one hand I commend Farsight. On the other, I wonder how much better the product would be if they were just focused on a handful of key platforms. Namely Xbox, PlayStation, and Mobile.

I feel you though, and I'm wondering the same. I'm just hoping that the PS4 version ships with clean, up to date tables. Otherwise there's always PC, where the community will mod/fix any problems themselves.

1000th Post! Yippie Skippie!

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night said:

As far as asking FarSight to fix issues and bugs, I learned a new quote yesterday: deal with it.

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Night, you're right. Deal with it or stop playing. Most of these HUGE bugs (and i know there are a couple real stinkers that need to be addressed) are not all that big. I've been playing CV for around a year now and i've not been able to finish maybe 6 games. And quite frankly, it's not the end of the world...starting a game over when you were near a goal used to be a staple of gaming. Now it's a occaisonal nuicance, really.

We all have this idea of what TPA "SHOULD" be and since the product falls short of some folks eternal glory, they really cause their own strife, and way too many act like it's the end of the world. Or even worse...start overly rehashed topics that we've seen over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

Frankly, it's been said over and over (etc)...they aren't taking time off.

They do fix bugs. Really, i see so many bug reports but so few actual "bug reports" properly done, with steps to recreate and lo and behold, maybe a pic or video showing the bug in action. Yes they do happen.

I also love how people claim that the grand majority would agree with them. Probably based on post count...but it's always the same few that repeat over and over and over and over like autistic children on a sugar high.

Mark, I agree it would be nice to have a huge sweeping fix-a-thon. But if a month goes by without a table release, well, their facebook page will LITERALLY implode on itself, creating a black-hole dense enough to engulf our entire solar system. And that can't happen cause then I'll never get 3Mil in Genie.

night said:

As far as asking FarSight to fix issues and bugs, I learned a new quote yesterday: deal with it.

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No kidding. Bugs in the tables are annoying, but not game breaking. The pressure to release new tables is what keeps the program fresh, not stamping out every last bug. And as others have said, they live and die by DLC. IMO TPA is already better than 95% of all iOS games out there, and that is saying alot!

Sounds like a good idea until you remember PS4 and XBONE Doh!

No break. Please release an updated version of Goin Nuts. Goin Nuts 2 perhaps.

DaPinballWizard said:

No break. Please release an updated version of Goin Nuts. Goin Nuts 2 perhaps.

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Goin' Nuts 3000: The Revenge of the Squirrels.
"Get ready for winter..."
"Hahaha!"
"... hide all your nuts ..."
"No way, give me your nuts!"
"... surrender to madness..."
"Hahahahaha!"
"... come play Goin' Nuts!!!"
[ wicked speed metal guitar solo ]

Serious question this time.

What makes people think TAF is coming out so soon? Aren't they at a standstill with Raul Julia's estate or did they break through? A bit out of the loop on this one.

I'll tell you none of these bugs have prevented my enjoyment of this game. I've had games where the camera gets locked in certain areas or the ball gets stuck and while initially frustrating those occurrences are infrequent. Heck even on real pinball machines I've had games where I had to tilt the game to get balls unstuck, or sat there waiting for the game to push a ball out of a pop-out because it "forgot" to do it earlier, or just having to play a game with a weak flipper. The Farsight games are still a lot more reliable in having a smooth pinball type experience.

I can recall early on when I visited this forum there were a lot of complaints about bugs in some of the early tables. I was dumbfounded since I wasn't coming across any bugs that I could see. But the posts about "bugs" kept appearing. I was kinda blown away when specifics of those bug complaints got posted and a majority of them were cosmetic in nature. Like the color being slightly off on the table, or a bumper not looking right, or some piece of metal overlapping where it shouldn't. Now that I'm more familiar with the pinball community I get now that art is a big deal. But for me, as a gamer, these seem like such minor complaints they wouldn't be worth fixing. As long as the tables look good, play great, and are fun I'm satisfied.

DarkAkatosh said:

Serious question this time.

What makes people think TAF is coming out so soon? Aren't they at a standstill with Raul Julia's estate or did they break through? A bit out of the loop on this one.

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T2's kickstarter page has suggested the next kickstarter would be for TAF, and Bobby has mentioned TAF much more frequently than he used to in interviews with various podcasts and in Pinball Magazine. Bobby also revealed that he expects to know by around mid-August the cost of the 9 licenses that are needed for TAF. (That does not mean that the kickstarter will start in mid-August, or even that TAF will ever come out at all, since the residuals on the licenses might come out too high for TAF to make financial sense even with a kickstarter to cover initial costs. It just means that Bobby will finally know for sure what the license terms will be.)

There has been no confirmation one way or the other regarding the Julia estate.