Pack 19 Beta

Ryan Routon · Oct 24, 2013

Yeah, since we are using a custom made in house audio mixer that mixes everything into a single channel that is then sent as a stream to the java side to be submitted in chunks to the OS, it appears to be a bit laggy, more so on some devices than others (worst I have seen is the original Kindle). The flippers don't have this problem because I am using a sound pool to play an .ogg file directly. Due to the game framework it would be impossible to do that since all sounds are included in a big byte chunk for each table. Flippers are universal so those are fine to sound pool. Every time I make the block size smaller to pass to the Stream it breaks some devices and you hear blips in between. Bugs me to no end but not sure what to do.

jaredmorgs said:
This is status quo for all tables on Android. Sound effects have latency no matter what table you play. @Ryan Routon has tried to tweak the sound server but no matter what he tries, he can never remove the latency. Much to my disappointment.

You'll also notice that when the music track loops there is a gap in playback. Get a high score on No Good Gophers and you'll see this issue become very apparent, and you won't be able to unhear it.

Baron Rubik · Oct 24, 2013

Still got the Haunted House infinite scoring bug when cradling on the upper level left flipper.

(man - I need better skills, took 10 mins to get that cradle).

Mad07 · Oct 24, 2013

1812
Big bug in multiplayer mode
3rd ball: one of the player has a HC. E.g.player 2. Direct after the ball drain, the player should insert his char. Then the inserthelp is still on screen. Player 3 can not kick the ball into the game. The app must be kick outof the memory

Cam3 is more or less the normal cam2 view
The rollover for the multifierer is bad to identify, which is lightning and which not

Same problem with Victory,
only with the different, that the helper to insert your char gos away. But also the app stucked and must kick out of the memory

night · Oct 24, 2013

Ryan Routon said:
Thanks for the reports guys, starting to forward them through the building. The lighting issue is a moot one, we don't have lighting on mobile =) it's all baked textures. Anyone else having trouble purchasing the Pro Pack?

The lighting/shadow fx is on the texture map itself.

Ryan Routon · Oct 24, 2013

It appears that we have some timing issues with Gottlieb emulation when adding 4 players. We are looking into this now. If you select 4 and wait 6 seconds before plunging it should add them as a work around.

switch3flip · Oct 24, 2013

switch3flip said:
Wow great tables! Awesome pack!

Bugs:

Ball seems a little small in victory.

Framedrops on both tables. (Both Mipmap on/off)

Music stops after pause on class of 1812, resumes after you've shot and activated a mode.

A comment on my own comments:

Still great pack! Best in a while!

Framedropping/stuttering is worse on 1812 than victory.

Music stopping after pausing (1812) is not occuring regularly.

Commenting on other issues, I have not had any problems with entering high score initials on either tables.

Ryan Routon · Oct 24, 2013

Anyone else seeing any framerate issues?

switch3flip said:
A comment on my own comments:

Still great pack! Best in a while!

Framedropping/stuttering is worse on 1812 than victory.

Music stopping after pausing (1812) is not occuring regularly.

Commenting on other issues, I have not had any problems with entering high score initials on either tables.

jaredmorgs · Oct 24, 2013

Ryan Routon said:
Yeah, since we are using a custom made in house audio mixer that mixes everything into a single channel that is then sent as a stream to the java side to be submitted in chunks to the OS, it appears to be a bit laggy, more so on some devices than others (worst I have seen is the original Kindle). The flippers don't have this problem because I am using a sound pool to play an .ogg file directly. Due to the game framework it would be impossible to do that since all sounds are included in a big byte chunk for each table. Flippers are universal so those are fine to sound pool. Every time I make the block size smaller to pass to the Stream it breaks some devices and you hear blips in between. Bugs me to no end but not sure what to do.

I geek out *hard* on these tech explanations.

*tl: dr*

Make the block size user-tunable using either pre-set values (if you need to tune a number of attributes in the mixer) or as an adjustable value.

Well, this answers one questions I know was asked in the last round of Bobby King questions:

Q. Are stereophonic mechanical effects possible?
A. No, not with the current audio mixer.

That would also explain why the Pinball Arcade theme tune is super compressed and single channel. Based on the amount of processing done for the sound, it's actually surprising that is isn't *more* laggy.

Does this also explain why there is a gap in playback when music tracks loop?

*RFE - User-selectable audio block size*

I have a possible solution (caveat is down to technical limitations)

Is the audio mixer block size something that could be exposed as a user option? I'm thinking that way folks could tweak the block size as appropriate for their device. Even if allowing them to specify a value is too hard to code, perhaps some pre-set values abstracted by a "friendly" menu option.

For example:

Audio Performance: [High | Medium High | Normal]

High being the smallest block size, and Normal being what is is currently tuned to now.

Notice I didn't use the word "Low" in the options, because psychologically no one would want to select that and it would make them feel like they were getting less quality audio.

Ryan Routon · Oct 24, 2013

Actually I was forgetting a piece of information there, the block size is device dependent. I query the OS and ask for the smallest possible chunk that hardware can support buffer wise, anything smaller and the sound just won't work at all, so letting the user change it would actually cause more issues (crashes in most cases since the buffer is trying to read bytes that just aren't there). It's the actual streaming aspect that we have to use which is causing the delay, and even google said they had latency issues that they have improved upon bit by bit.

Also I noticed the lag on the two new tables even shows up in the other platforms like xbox and PC, Mike tells me that its an issue with the emulation (cpu processing slow on those chips for some reason) so it wouldn't fix the issue anyhow.

jaredmorgs said:
I geek out *hard* on these tech explanations.

*tl: dr*

Make the block size user-tunable using either pre-set values (if you need to tune a number of attributes in the mixer) or as an adjustable value.

Well, this answers one questions I know was asked in the last round of Bobby King questions:

Q. Are stereophonic mechanical effects possible?
A. No, not with the current audio mixer.

That would also explain why the Pinball Arcade theme tune is super compressed and single channel. Based on the amount of processing done for the sound, it's actually surprising that is isn't *more* laggy.

Does this also explain why there is a gap in playback when music tracks loop?

*RFE - User-selectable audio block size*

I have a possible solution (caveat is down to technical limitations)

Is the audio mixer block size something that could be exposed as a user option? I'm thinking that way folks could tweak the block size as appropriate for their device. Even if allowing them to specify a value is too hard to code, perhaps some pre-set values abstracted by a "friendly" menu option.

For example:

Audio Performance: [High | Medium High | Normal]

High being the smallest block size, and Normal being what is is currently tuned to now.

Notice I didn't use the word "Low" in the options, because psychologically no one would want to select that and it would make them feel like they were getting less quality audio.

Baron Rubik · Oct 24, 2013

Lying in bed - playing 1812 on my tablet.
My missus just loves that chicken singing whilst she's trying to sleep - (I'm worried about the safety of my droid.)

PiN WiZ · Oct 24, 2013

Ryan Routon said:
Just took a look at the receipts and it looks like we have 21 orders that went through. So maybe it was a hicup in the system not sure. The payment declined error is also not ours but the play app's

I had to use my debit card to purchase the Pro Pack. This is the first time I was unable to charge my Sprint account for a Google Play purchase (In-app or otherwise). I'll do some more investigating as I'm sure the issue may be on my end.

Ryan Routon · Oct 24, 2013

LoL yeah... that has been the soundtrack of the office for weeks. I can hear the testers upstairs clucking

Baron Rubik said:
Lying in bed - playing 1812 on my tablet.
My missus just loves that chicken singing whilst she's trying to sleep - (I'm worried about the safety of my droid.)

Ryan Routon · Oct 24, 2013

Ok thanks for the report though =)

PiN WiZ said:
I had to use my debit card to purchase the Pro Pack. This is the first time I was unable to charge my Sprint account for a Google Play purchase (In-app or otherwise). I'll do some more investigating as I'm sure the issue may be on my end.

jaredmorgs · Oct 24, 2013

Ryan Routon said:
Actually I was forgetting a piece of information there, the block size is device dependent. I query the OS and ask for the smallest possible chunk that hardware can support buffer wise, anything smaller and the sound just won't work at all, so letting the user change it would actually cause more issues (crashes in most cases since the buffer is trying to read bytes that just aren't there). It's the actual streaming aspect that we have to use which is causing the delay, and even google said they had latency issues that they have improved upon bit by bit.

Also I noticed the lag on the two new tables even shows up in the other platforms like xbox and PC, Mike tells me that its an issue with the emulation (cpu processing slow on those chips for some reason) so it wouldn't fix the issue anyhow.

Well, I think it's probably safe to say this is no easy fix.

I know that some Rhythm action games like DJ MAX have tried and failed to sync audio with screen queues for this same underlying issue in Android. They tried to implement a screen-sync setting that resets the music bars in time with the audio stream, but this is not applicable to the issue you're battling with here.

The only way to fix this would be to rewrite the audio mixer. And I know that won't be happening any time soon.

I did notice when I unpacked the APK once that there were two .ogg files for flipper sounds. It is a real shame that other mechanical samples can't be delivered in this way. But I understand the technical limitations you described.

PiN WiZ · Oct 24, 2013

I would also like to see more baked-in lighting and shadows on the new tables for mobile devices. The question is...does the art team have enough time to add them with the time constraints they are currently working under.

switch3flip · Oct 25, 2013

Just noticed that the camera angles in landscape view on 1812 are very zoomed out compared to victory and most other tables. In portrait the difference doesn't matter as the "in-between angles (angles 1 &2) work great (and really great, by the way - perfect space for thumbs under flippers and great framing) I don't think I will play landscape on any of these two tables myself, until they come out for ps3 that is, but others might, and I use the closest angle (4) when I do, so a little closer if possible would be great. The one that's furthest away (3) on 1812 is faaaar away.

esp2000 · Oct 25, 2013

Noticed on 1812 that the mouth does not move at all during the multiball like I see it on all of the videos for the real table.

netizen · Oct 25, 2013

Does anyone else notice that CO1812 has the Funhouse effect on Multiball, where quite often as soon as the multiball begins one of the balls goes straight down the left outlane?

PiN WiZ · Oct 25, 2013

Ryan, can you please add the attract sound for Central Park on the Table Select screen? It's been missing since Central Park was released.

debuggiest · Oct 25, 2013

netizen said:
Does anyone else notice that CO1812 has the Funhouse effect on Multiball, where quite often as soon as the multiball begins one of the balls goes straight down the left outlane?

Not me, but I have noticed that a lot of my shots to the skull upkicker on T2 tend to STDM. *shrugs*

Pack 19 Beta

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