FarSight PREPS For Star Trek : The Next Generation Kickstarter Project

Debelius said:

Yep, I'd find it fascinating to have a walk through of the whole process as well, I imagine large parts of the process would already be documented as part of the procedure anyway. It shouldnt be that hard to do, and would certainly help to maintain the anticipation people are feeling

Cheers

Paul

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I would love that as well. Just do a couple of snapshots, screenshots, whatever - doesn't need to be anything fancy. I'd love to get a deeper insight into how Farsight works, and it would make people appreciate the effort that goes into recreating these tables much more.

It would keep people aware that it's still happening, how well it's progressing, plus a ton of interesting stuff of how a pinball machine is actually looking when you take it apart, all the little pieces...

i'd like that a lot more than just going Kickstarter -> ??? -> TZ DLC half a year later. And it would put people in a better mood to pledge for STTNG since they see that the TZ project is actually being worked on. I wouldn't underestimate little things like that - you need to keep the fanbase engadged, build some hype, and again - a couple of pics and a little write-up shouldn't be that time-consuming.

Supermans said:

Well, it does seem like the perfect candidate for a pinball arcade transfering so everyone on the planet can enjoy it. Having Farsight take it apart to scan all the parts, would have to be approved by one of the two owners. However if there are blue-prints or drawings of the parts might be the only option if taking it apart is not allowed. A shame it was never mass produced. Let's hope we do see it inside this video game one day and preserve the history of it.

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Although I fully agree Pinball Circus looks awesome and is definitly a peice for amazing pinball conversation, I think it would be rediculious for Farsight to waste the time and effort on recreating it. Since it was so rare it really doesnt hold much nostalgia to many people. Farsight probably shouldn't waste much time on anything that's not on the list of the top 300 tables of all time. After they get up about 100 tables than maybe they can do some cool rare little-known gems like Pinball Circus but it really just seems like an extra headache to throw at them now.

As for Pinball tables I'd like to see kick started: addams family, and both Elvira Mistress of the Dark tables, also Nightmare on Elm Street would be sweet. I bet they could get the Elvira licence super cheap, she loves pinball and ownes all her own rights to her name and charicter. Much cheaper than Indiana Jones and Star Wars which are probably the most expensively unobtainable licenses.

I agree they should concentrate on more down-to-earth projects first, but PC would be a great one to have eventually. Also remember, taking the machine apart isn't destroying or damaging it, as long as you have a skilled technician who knows what they're doing, which FS seems to have. It is a lot of trouble, and probably won't happen, but to have the "holy grail" of pinball for the world to enjoy would be awesome!

Pete said:

Although I fully agree Pinball Circus looks awesome and is definitly a peice for amazing pinball conversation, I think it would be rediculious for Farsight to waste the time and effort on recreating it. Since it was so rare it really doesnt hold much nostalgia to many people. Farsight probably shouldn't waste much time on anything that's not on the list of the top 300 tables of all time. After they get up about 100 tables than maybe they can do some cool rare little-known gems like Pinball Circus but it really just seems like an extra headache to throw at them now.

As for Pinball tables I'd like to see kick started: addams family, and both Elvira Mistress of the Dark tables, also Nightmare on Elm Street would be sweet. I bet they could get the Elvira licence super cheap, she loves pinball and ownes all her own rights to her name and charicter. Much cheaper than Indiana Jones and Star Wars which are probably the most expensively unobtainable licenses.

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Pinball Circus would be a marquee title if Farsight was able to achieve it. They already hold the license they need to create it so no kickstarter would be necessary. And if they get a hold of blue-prints and a list of parts since it was ready to go into production, it would be a welcome addition to the pinball arcade family of games. I do agree with you that there are plenty of tables to choose from in the top 100, however Pinball Circus if released would be a top 20 without a shadow of a doubt if given the chance to flourish. It just had a bigger price-tag and was a more complex table. The main reason I disagree with you about this table being a waste of time is in the tables complexity and uniqueness. One can say it is up there in being one of the most complex tables ever conceived. It would be amazing for Farsight to be able to achieve in getting to re-create it with only 2 tables in existence.

Pinball Circus looks crazier than any Zen pinball table. It seems a bit annoying to play, but it looks absolutely fascinating, like something I would dream of after I played TPA for hours before going to bed.

I think it´s an absolute mammoth machine and it definitely should come to TPA at some point - not necessarily soon when they still have so much stuff to deal with, but later on. I really do see TPA as a way to preserve pinball, and given that only 2 machines exist, it definitely deserves to be preserved!

I think Pinball Circus would present a number of issues for a translation to Pinball Arcade. 1) There are only two of them, which makes their normal process difficult to impossible, and 2) The table is a completely different layout from a normal table, which likely means designing new technology for displaying everything on the table. That could be costly for them to do, and also introduce a ton of non-standard bugs.

Gord Lacey said:

There are only two of them, which makes their normal process difficult to impossible

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Yeah, I doubt either known owner (there is a third somewhere) would allow FarSight to completely disassemble their Pinball Circus to individual component parts.

I'm not convinced there's a third one. IPDB is the only place that says there are 3 - everywhere else mentions 2, and IPDB doesn't talk about where the third one is.

Farsight needs to get ahold of the PHOF and work out a deal to get thier pinball circus and tech to tear it down and digitize! PHOF is a nonprofit business who try to preserve pinball machines. Maybe farsight could donate a portion of all sales of THAT DLC on all platforms wich woul get waaay more $$$ than that 1 machine. Both sides benefit and share a common goal.

mmmagnetic said:

Pinball Circus looks crazier than any Zen pinball table. It seems a bit annoying to play, but it looks absolutely fascinating, like something I would dream of after I played TPA for hours before going to bed.

I think it´s an absolute mammoth machine and it definitely should come to TPA at some point - not necessarily soon when they still have so much stuff to deal with, but later on. I really do see TPA as a way to preserve pinball, and given that only 2 machines exist, it definitely deserves to be preserved!

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FS admitted they didn't have a BH on premises at the time it was released on TPA (they have on on site now), so it might be possible to do PC from secondary sources. This is a game only those lucky enough to go to the PHOF in Vegas have ever played.

They have a relationship with PBHOF which is a nonprofit organization and in the business of preserving tables for future generationsin a similar fashion as Farsight. It would be great if Farsight could broker a deal with them about taking it apart for scanning since they can coordinate that with the next time the machine goes in for maintenance or repair. Taking them apart carefully will not damage it at all since PB machines are made for the easy repair. PBC would be a great move for them to make after STTNG is released.

Supermans said:

They have a relationship with PBHOF which is a nonprofit organization and in the business of preserving tables for future generationsin a similar fashion as Farsight. It would be great if Farsight could broker a deal with them about taking it apart for scanning since they can coordinate that with the next time the machine goes in for maintenance or repair. Taking them apart carefully will not damage it at all since PB machines are made for the easy repair. PBC would be a great move for them to make after STTNG is released.

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I think museum wise, PBHOF would rather they do a bunch of the old antique tables that are actually starting to decay. Ive never been to the pinball hall of fame myself being that it is so far away. I go to the Silverball Pinball Museum in Asbury Park NJ allot, really nice place not as big as the pbhof but still awesome. Most of the old tables from the 50s and 60s arnt exactly mint looking anymore. Some of them arnt going to last another decade and it becomes incresingly harder to hunt down decent condition one's. The amount of work it would take to make pinball circus digital could probably be spent making 50 retro tables which involve so much less work. You guys are nuts asking for pinball circus so early in. But i love you anyway fellow pinball obsesed pals

The difference is that PC is fun, and completely unique, in a good way. If the only two tables in existence were destroyed, it would be tragic. 50s and 60s machines, with a few exceptions, simply paved the way for the better machines to follow, and don't hold up well today, except as a reminder of how far they had come.

I don't have a problem with 50's and 60's machines as long as we don't get a mess of them. So many of them have almost the same layout with just a different theme. You can get a real taste of them by recreating 10 or 12 of the most popular layouts, but please not 50 retro tables. I think that would turn a lot of people off.

Pete, the very retro 50's and 60's pinball machines are simply too old to viably market into Pinball Arcade when the competition is Zen Pinball and other modern-like recreations. In fact, the 80's is about as far back as I would go for this grouping. Now what Farsight can do is pick out the top 5 vintage retro pinball machines to recreate and bundle them all together for the price of two modern tables and perhaps some fans will buy them. Pinball Circus add's two unique challenges for Farsight. One, it's uniquness in that their standard table model simply won't fit. Second, the complexity of the machine and rarity of it makes it even harder to emulate correctly. However it is doable since Farsight has the rights to the tables original maker already, and has the relatinship with PBHOF being a nonprofit organization. Pinball Circus would be the next most awaited and most interesting game to announce after Star Trek TNG and Twilight Zone. I don't think a kickstarter would be necessary however if it is, I would definaty contribute.

Have they given a start date for the kickstarter yet?

Kolchak357 said:

Have they given a start date for the kickstarter yet?

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I believe FarSight is looking to get the Xbox 360 Title Update situation sorted out before going ahead with their ST:TNG Kickstarter Project.

Thanks. Can't blame them for wanting to clear that up. It could have a big effect on kickstarter funding.

I think there is definitly a significant enough market for older tables in pinball arcade to make money. Sure they wouldnt be as popular as Mideval Madness or Monster Bash but there is definitly allot of real life pinball fans like myself that love them. Me myself am 30, I didnt grow up with the retro pinball tables but I have played many of them at the Silverball Museum and I think there are some really fun one's that hold through time. Production costs of porting these old tables into pinball arcade would be very low. they could make the older tables so much more effortlessly as compared to the complex headache of things that need to been done to port a more modern table. Perhaps with the lower production cost they could be sold in larger packs for the same $5 or perhaps thrown 1 at a time into packs with another more expensive to produce table to even costs. The fact of the matter is if you go into a real life pinball museum your going to see mostly older tables and you will notice allot of people still love playing them. Any true fan of the history of real life pinball is going to want at least some of those all time greats in the archive along with the more modern one's. I dont think a pinball museum can even call itself a proper pinball museum without having at least an Evil Knievel and a Bally Playboy table(the Playboy Magazine one, NOT the Gottlieb one which is a totally different table.)

Pete, perhaps there is a market for the older tables, and my idea of bundling them up into 5 games being sold for the same price as two of the more modern tables may get enough people to bite and make the purchase for them. You and I and probably everyone in this forum would purchase it. What I fear is that Farsight loses ground against PinballFX/Zen Pinball fantasy tables with the younger audience which I feel Farsight needs to ensnare with nothing less than the best tables early on. I think for the older tables, Farsight needs to seperate them from the Pinball Arcade completely and call it Vintage Pinball Arcade. The reason for that seperation is simply to avoid people who download the demo to try the older tables first instead of the newer more exciting tables which have a better chance of getting people to buy them.