Terminator 2 Kickstarter BEGINNING NOW!!!

[Mark W**a]

The comments in the Joystiq article are laughable.

Kick starter is nothing but a preorder program? That's... An interesting way of looking at it... Or not. Very strange, the brains of people who read Joystiq.

Anyone who mentions Zen as having better physics automatically to me loses all credibility with just about anything they have to say afterwards. Zeus physics are fine for the fantasy tables but as far as realism or being anywhere near as good as Pinball Arcade on that front... lol no.

 

[Mark W**a]

They might not be able to offer Beta Testers on the next Kickstarter but if it's The Addams Family I would suggest something like a $250 donation gets the "Gold" version of the game. Make it limited to the kickstarter ONLY where you can only purchase the regular version of the game afterwards for the length of the license.

Unless the KS is absurdly high (talking in the hundreds of thousands) then I'd have to ask they wouldn't do this... I like how you're thinking and it's certainly a good idea to get higher pledges but that simply will not be needed unless the KS amount is astronomical which I do not believe it will.

 

[Lucipher28]

Because some gamers like to be reassured that they can keep their games forever. I have an Atari VCS that's over 30 years old, for instance, and almost every Nintendo console ever made.

Exactly.

I've tried explaining this to Sotie, but like he said, he doesn't own a console. It's hard for those people to understand. I want my kids to play these tables, because most of these tables won't be around in physical form around then.

 

[sotie]

Exactly.

I've tried explaining this to Sotie, but like he said, he doesn't own a console. It's hard for those people to understand. I want my kids to play these tables, because most of these tables won't be around in physical form around then.

I do understand everything you said and I know how consoles work. I was attempting to be nice because it seems that you're having a hard time accepting the fact that discs are dying a slow death and game distribution is evolving to a digital distribution model.

I never said I don't own a console; I said that I don't play TPA on PS3.

 

[Lucipher28]

I do understand everything you said and I know how consoles work. I was attempting to be nice because it seems that you're having a hard time accepting the fact that discs are dying a slow death and game distribution is evolving to a digital distribution model.

I never said I don't own a console; I said that I don't play TPA on PS3.

Attempting to be nice? Are we in grade school or something? Hahahaha I'm not having a hard time with it at all.

If that's they way companies want to go, so be it. The difference is that with music, anyone can still have a physical copy of it. I can download stuff, burn it, etc etc. In a situation like this, if my system goes out in a few years, if licensing stops, if the company goes bankrupt- The games are all gone. As mentioned before by many, that's a very unwise way to go. I'm not sure how games are being "preserved" if you can't own a physical copy of them. They're being rented out, nothing more, until the company comes up with a way to allow customers to have some sort of physical way of owning it without risk of ever losing it.

On another note, games today have gotten so much worse, I rarely buy anything new. The games today have very little to no replay value. I think I've purchased maybe 8 games for PS3 since I bought it in 2008, and most of those are yearly sports games.

 

[warh0g]

I chose to be PC beta tester, since it is my main platform

 

[Worf]

A developer only gets a maximum of 100 iDevices in the beta test pool. Given the current beta testers, the incoming beta testers, FarSight's own internal test devices and the desire to leave room for future testers, I would assume there will only be room for 1 device per tester, unless FarSight tells you differently.

I believe it's 100 devices per account. I would assume that a company like FarSight MIGHT have more than one developer account with Apple just because - the annual fee of $99 is nothing and it's easier to just have each developer working off their own account and their own sets of devices rather than have to fight over one account.

And yes, $99 is nothing - if a developer has to wait to share an account, the time he wastes waiting can easily be more than $99.

Some devs have themselves opened more than one account because they need the beta testing space. Apple's only cracking down on people who use developer accounts to sell access to beta iOS, really.

In the end, we'll see. According to the kickstarter, there's 45 people who went for the $400 pledge, and 6 who went one higher, so there's really 51 people tops. And I'm sure unless iOS is overrepresented, that there's a number for Android and the like.

 

[Sumez]

The comments in the Joystiq article are laughable.

Kick starter is nothing but a preorder program? That's... An interesting way of looking at it... Or not. Very strange, the brains of people who read Joystiq.

That's not all mistaken. It's a sort of pay-what-you-want preorder. And basically, having that many preorders allows developers to ensure their income they avoid having to take risks or relying on publishers. It's not a bad thing at all!

 

[Sumez]

it seems that you're having a hard time accepting the fact that discs are dying a slow death and game distribution is evolving to a digital distribution model.

I think we are a lot who feel that way.
I'm not a fan of discs, but when I pay for something, I'd like to have a physical copy that I can keep forever. (and for those of you who heard all those rumors about the impermanence of game discs, most of it isn't true, they are all protected by a secure layer that should last for a life time, unless they had a production error)

 

[Fungi]

I don't know. My physical copies of ProPinball for pre intel Macs are useless now. And once my PS1, PS2, PS3 breakdown, there go my physical copies of those as well.

 

[Sumez]

Well lack of backwards compatibility was always a part of the concept behind Mac.

Sure, your PS1-3 can break down, but that doesn't keep you from getting a new one.

 

[Fungi]

Well lack of backwards compatibility was always a part of the concept behind Mac.

Sure, your PS1-3 can break down, but that doesn't keep you from getting a new one.

Yes, but for how long. My point is, since we're talking about keeping these forever, physical copies don't mean squat if the platform it runs on ceases to exist. 20 years from now, it'll be easier to find a Twinkie than a PS3. Of course, 20 years from now, I'll be more worried about remembering my daily meds.

 

[Timelord]

I believe it's 100 devices per account. I would assume that a company like FarSight MIGHT have more than one developer account with Apple just because - the annual fee of $99 is nothing and it's easier to just have each developer working off their own account and their own sets of devices rather than have to fight over one account.

And yes, $99 is nothing - if a developer has to wait to share an account, the time he wastes waiting can easily be more than $99.

Some devs have themselves opened more than one account because they need the beta testing space. Apple's only cracking down on people who use developer accounts to sell access to beta iOS, really.

In the end, we'll see. According to the kickstarter, there's 45 people who went for the $400 pledge, and 6 who went one higher, so there's really 51 people tops. And I'm sure unless iOS is overrepresented, that there's a number for Android and the like.

For what it's worth I chose the PC as my Beta testing device at the Kickstarter $400.00 level, so there's one less iOS test slot you guys have to worry about.

Timelord ...

 

[sotie]

I think we are a lot who feel that way.
I'm not a fan of discs, but when I pay for something, I'd like to have a physical copy that I can keep forever. (and for those of you who heard all those rumors about the impermanence of game discs, most of it isn't true, they are all protected by a secure layer that should last for a life time, unless they had a production error)

Funny, I just heard a news story which made me think of these posts regarding the death of discs. EA just reported their quarterly earnings and for the first time ever they made more money through Apple's App Store than any other source. The report I heard speculated that this will cause investment (safe) money to move away from consoles and towards mobile.

 

[sotie]

The difference is that with music, anyone can still have a physical copy of it. I can download stuff, burn it, etc etc. In a situation like this, if my system goes out in a few years, if licensing stops, if the company goes bankrupt- The games are all gone.

When I asked you "Is there no way to make a backup of 'download only' PS3 games?" the other day it was a rhetorical question. It is possible to back them up.

 

[Sumez]

Funny, I just heard a news story which made me think of these posts regarding the death of discs. EA just reported their quarterly earnings and for the first time ever they made more money through Apple's App Store than any other source. The report I heard speculated that this will cause investment (safe) money to move away from consoles and towards mobile.

The mobile market is much much worse than simply the concept of digital distribution. Have you ever tried browsing through a mobile app store? It's a wasteland consisting of everything that can go wrong in the video game industry. Prices so low that quantity weighs more than quality, sneaky microtransactions, abundance of redundant DLC, blatant ripoffs created for the sole purpose of cheap cash-ins, and a terrible lack of QA. Gems like TPA are really rare in this mess.

 

[Gord Lacey]

I don't know. My physical copies of ProPinball for pre intel Macs are useless now. And once my PS1, PS2, PS3 breakdown, there go my physical copies of those as well.

Google "SheepShaver." It allows you to boot into OS 9. I've played "The Web" in there to test it out, and it works. It's also REALLY trippy to load up OS 9 and see extensions and control panels loading across the bottom of the screen.

 

[Mark W**a]

Yes, but for how long. My point is, since we're talking about keeping these forever, physical copies don't mean squat if the platform it runs on ceases to exist. 20 years from now, it'll be easier to find a Twinkie than a PS3. Of course, 20 years from now, I'll be more worried about remembering my daily meds.

Except this is not true.

There are over 80 million PS3's in the wild and when it's all said and done, there will be probably around 100 million. Now compare that to Nintendo Entertainment System, which combined with Famicom sold 60 million units world-wide. The console is 30 years old, not 20, and I can still go buy one in great shape that works perfectly for 40 dollars.

Even the Sega Saturn, which is approaching 20 years old, and only sold 10 million in it's lifetime, can be had for a reasonable price these days. The days when these systems and games start fetching in the thousands of dollars (which may actually never happen because of emulation) will be well beyond our lifetimes. By then we probably won't even have money anymore!! (Star Trek Future ftw).

 

[brakel]

I want my kids to play these tables, because most of these tables won't be around in physical form around then.

I guess my perspective is different. I grew up playing pinball machines and arcade video games. When the arcade decided to get a new machine, one of those other machines disappeared. Might be your favorite or might be something you never got a chance to play but in either case you knew you'd never see it again. Even if it came out for the 2600 it would not be the same and it would suck. There was no saving a game for posterity.

My daughter has gotten the chance to play TPA and takes her PS3 to college and plays pinball with other girls in her dorm. TPA does give us the hope that as long as there is demand, there will be future generations entertained by virtual pinball. I understand that a game on a disc will most likely be playable longer than the same version that is downloaded. But we don't live in a world where its practical for every game to be available on a disc. There's also the release day patch world that we live in. I don't remember the last disc game that I got on release day that didn't have a patch that it needed. Those online patches won't be available either. So you might be able to play the game in 2030 but it will be a partly broken, bastardized version of the game.

There is no perfect answer to wanting to keep a game forever. That's why I used my example of the arcade. We knew we'd never play that game again. Many of those games will never have a digital recreation. Many of the pinball machines that I played will never be recreated for TPA. And its ok. I will have those memories for at least most of my life. And I have enjoyed telling my daughter the stories of those arcade days. How arcades were outlawed in our town so our trips to the arcade were a day long biking and gaming adventure and how I went in the beginning for the air conditioning as much as for the games! No one can ever truly recreate that for me. And nothing can ever take that away from me except for the cruelty of being mortal.

 

[Lucipher28]

I think we are a lot who feel that way.
I'm not a fan of discs, but when I pay for something, I'd like to have a physical copy that I can keep forever. (and for those of you who heard all those rumors about the impermanence of game discs, most of it isn't true, they are all protected by a secure layer that should last for a life time, unless they had a production error)

Exactly.

I don't know. My physical copies of ProPinball for pre intel Macs are useless now. And once my PS1, PS2, PS3 breakdown, there go my physical copies of those as well.

I disagree.

You can always re-buy those systems through various outlets, such as eBay.

Again, I have an original Atari 2600, and even my old Apple computer. Everything still works great, if there's an issue- I go to eBay.

Yes, but for how long. My point is, since we're talking about keeping these forever, physical copies don't mean squat if the platform it runs on ceases to exist. 20 years from now, it'll be easier to find a Twinkie than a PS3. Of course, 20 years from now, I'll be more worried about remembering my daily meds.

Again and again, I disagree.

I find it very easy to find stuff I grew up with. I recently just re-bought my entire Sega Genesis collection, either through eBay or used video games stores.

There's means to maintain your systems and collection, you just have to put the time and effort into it.

When I asked you "Is there no way to make a backup of 'download only' PS3 games?" the other day it was a rhetorical question. It is possible to back them up.

By all means, please inform the rest of us how, because myself and others answered your question with a solid "No".

I guess my perspective is different. I grew up playing pinball machines and arcade video games. When the arcade decided to get a new machine, one of those other machines disappeared. Might be your favorite or might be something you never got a chance to play but in either case you knew you'd never see it again. Even if it came out for the 2600 it would not be the same and it would suck. There was no saving a game for posterity.

My daughter has gotten the chance to play TPA and takes her PS3 to college and plays pinball with other girls in her dorm. TPA does give us the hope that as long as there is demand, there will be future generations entertained by virtual pinball. I understand that a game on a disc will most likely be playable longer than the same version that is downloaded. But we don't live in a world where its practical for every game to be available on a disc. There's also the release day patch world that we live in. I don't remember the last disc game that I got on release day that didn't have a patch that it needed. Those online patches won't be available either. So you might be able to play the game in 2030 but it will be a partly broken, bastardized version of the game.

There is no perfect answer to wanting to keep a game forever. That's why I used my example of the arcade. We knew we'd never play that game again. Many of those games will never have a digital recreation. Many of the pinball machines that I played will never be recreated for TPA. And its ok. I will have those memories for at least most of my life. And I have enjoyed telling my daughter the stories of those arcade days. How arcades were outlawed in our town so our trips to the arcade were a day long biking and gaming adventure and how I went in the beginning for the air conditioning as much as for the games! No one can ever truly recreate that for me. And nothing can ever take that away from me except for the cruelty of being mortal.

I understand what you're saying, but times have obviously changed, and if there's a way to keep these games forever, esp when there's demand, then it should be done.

I'm just going by the company's testimonial, nothing more.

Except this is not true.

There are over 80 million PS3's in the wild and when it's all said and done, there will be probably around 100 million. Now compare that to Nintendo Entertainment System, which combined with Famicom sold 60 million units world-wide. The console is 30 years old, not 20, and I can still go buy one in great shape that works perfectly for 40 dollars.

Even the Sega Saturn, which is approaching 20 years old, and only sold 10 million in it's lifetime, can be had for a reasonable price these days. The days when these systems and games start fetching in the thousands of dollars (which may actually never happen because of emulation) will be well beyond our lifetimes. By then we probably won't even have money anymore!! (Star Trek Future ftw).

Bingo.