Android - Request 1 cent pay-to-play kickstarter donations

[switch3flip]

I've been thinking of ways to add the dimension of nerve and suspense of pinball to PA. I mean like in real life where you pay to play a game, you try to make the most out of every ball. Or playing against your friends, you have that competetive dimension and making that shot is totally different. That is a dimension on which pinball playing is built upon. For obvious reasons, getting a replay means nothing in PA but is satisfying in real life. I think you know what I mean. Playing now feels more like endless practising than competition, even the tournaments are lackning in this regard. It's even more restarting than normal.

Well, the ultimate solution for me would be online multiplayer. Think about the possibility to play a game against someone else online. It would be so awesome. You would get ranking points for each game you win and have tournaments and you know, this would take PA to another level. The ultimate online game. It would increase general interest more than any possible table release.
Now I'm sure Farsight have thought about this and for some reason it's not possible right now. But in the long run this MUST be a goal and it should be highly prioritized.

So, the other type of play we have is single person pay-to-play. Now I don't think anyone would be paying 1 $ per game, but how about paying 1 cent per game? Let's say you could buy 100 credits for 1 $. And the money would go as DONATIONS TO NEXT KICKSTARTER! There would also be a seperate leaderboard. I think your score should get on the regular leaderboard as well, so you don't miss out on that, but with a separate leaderboard for pay-to-play games maybe well get out of that restart type of play a bit and more importantly, add the dimension of putting in stakes in a game. I mean, sure, 1 cent is not much, but I think it would make a big difference. Think about playing poker without stakes. It's pointless. I feel there is something similar lost in Pinball Arcade as it is now.
So you would buy 100 credits and use them to play. 1 game for 1 credit, 3 games for 2 credits, just like regualar. You get extra credits for replays and end of game number matching and so on. And as I said, with a dedicated leaderboard, this would add to playing value.

There might be some problems with crashed games and lost credits, but as long as it's very clear that all money you pay are donations and you play at own risk and it's totally voluntairy and that Farsight takes no responsibilty, no refunds and so on, I think this would be a very appreciated system.

Maybe it's not possible on all platforms, but for android at least this should be possible?

What do you guys think?

 

[Sean DonCarlos]

I think that I am tired of hearing the word "kickstarter" in connection with The Pinball Arcade, and pinball in general. That's not really FarSight's fault, but after FarSight's success with the TZ and ST:TNG kickstarters, it seems like everyone wanting to do anything pinball-related have been lining up with hats in hand. Between FarSight's three DLC kickstarters, Pro Pinball's two (the first one failed), the one for PAPA TV, and a few others, the pinball community has been bled dry.

There are three more kickstarters that I would donate to: Those to bring Addams Family, Lord of the Rings, and The Simpsons Pinball Party to TPA (assuming in each case that the necessary licensing hurdles could be overcome). Beyond that, though, no more.

 

[netizen]

I am pretty tired of Kickstarters as well.
<rant>
I am very disillusioned about the devaluing of the kickstarted tables by their inclusion in the season passes. This gives the impression that they don't need to recoup the value of the license and that the effort to kickstart the license money was just a quick way to raise it via the fans.

The things that were supposed to be exclusive, everybody has now; apart from some beta access. This does very little to encourage anyone to contribute anything more than the bare minimum and to treat the process like a pre-order, which then perpetuates the "where's my copy" angst and hate on the whole process; rinse and repeat.

Seeing as there is a love for polls, why not determine the maximum market price for licensed tables and not include them in seasons passes. Yanno like was implied originally.

</rant>

 

[Worf]

If you participated int he kickstarter and the season pass, make sure you get your credit for table in the season pass.

Also, the kickstarter was never supposed to be exclusive. It was just to realize the fact that T2 was economically nonviable a table to do - that no matter what FS does, there is no way they can recoup their licensing fees from table and pack sales. All Kickstarter did was make it possible for those of us who wanted the table to actually get it done.

Without the kickstarter, there would be no T2. STTNG and TZ may not have happened until much later when FS has more money to toss around for these things. (STTNG and TZ have demand, but again, CBS wanted $55K just to get their lawyers to sit down).

I think T2 was a "close" kickstarter to show just barely viable it is - after everyone who paid up got it, I don't think they're really made much extra out of it. STTNG and TZ blew past their minimums quickly showing demand. And if they can get their ducks in a row to line up potential licensing of TAF, that should be an easy one.

 

[MonkeyGrass]

Well, the ultimate solution for me would be online multiplayer. Think about the possibility to play a game against someone else online. It would be so awesome. You would get ranking points for each game you win and have tournaments and you know, this would take PA to another level. The ultimate online game. It would increase general interest more than any possible table release.
Now I'm sure Farsight have thought about this and for some reason it's not possible right now. But in the long run this MUST be a goal and it should be highly prioritized.

So, the other type of play we have is single person pay-to-play. Now I don't think anyone would be paying 1 $ per game, but how about paying 1 cent per game? Let's say you could buy 100 credits for 1 $. And the money would go as DONATIONS TO NEXT KICKSTARTER! There would also be a seperate leaderboard. I think your score should get on the regular leaderboard as well, so you don't miss out on that, but with a separate leaderboard for pay-to-play games maybe well get out of that restart type of play a bit and more importantly, add the dimension of putting in stakes in a game. I mean, sure, 1 cent is not much, but I think it would make a big difference. Think about playing poker without stakes. It's pointless. I feel there is something similar lost in Pinball Arcade as it is now.
So you would buy 100 credits and use them to play. 1 game for 1 credit, 3 games for 2 credits, just like regualar. You get extra credits for replays and end of game number matching and so on. And as I said, with a dedicated leaderboard, this would add to playing value.

There might be some problems with crashed games and lost credits, but as long as it's very clear that all money you pay are donations and you play at own risk and it's totally voluntairy and that Farsight takes no responsibilty, no refunds and so on, I think this would be a very appreciated system.

Maybe it's not possible on all platforms, but for android at least this should be possible?

What do you guys think?

What I think is, why the heck would I want to PAY to play a game I already PAID for? The "incentive" you speak of, is for me (and most serious pinballers) is to beat the machine and GET THE HIGH SCORE. The thing I think you're missing here, is that in an arcade, you didn't already buy the machine. What you are basically proposing is like buying your own pinball machine, and then keeping it on coin-op instead of Free Play. No thanks, the number of pinball games I play per week would cost me more than I care to pay, even at $.01. Sorry, bad idea and I doubt you'll get much support for it.

Now the online multiplayer, I could totally dig. Zen has an option to play either timed or score-limited games in real time online. Which is cool. I wish their tables were better lol. I would absolutely LOVE an online hotseat option, where the other player has to watch your turn, just like IRL and locally. But only if that includes in-game chat, so you can taunt or compliment your opponent in their ear while they play. Again, just like IRL

 

[brakel]

What I think is, why the heck would I want to PAY to play a game I already PAID for? The "incentive" you speak of, is for me (and most serious pinballers) is to beat the machine and GET THE HIGH SCORE. The thing I think you're missing here, is that in an arcade, you didn't already buy the machine. What you are basically proposing is like buying your own pinball machine, and then keeping it on coin-op instead of Free Play. No thanks, the number of pinball games I play per week would cost me more than I care to pay, even at $.01. Sorry, bad idea and I doubt you'll get much support for it.

Now the online multiplayer, I could totally dig. Zen has an option to play either timed or score-limited games in real time online. Which is cool. I wish their tables were better lol. I would absolutely LOVE an online hotseat option, where the other player has to watch your turn, just like IRL and locally. But only if that includes in-game chat, so you can taunt or compliment your opponent in their ear while they play. Again, just like IRL

No, it's worse than that. It's like keeping the pinball machine in coin op mode and then sending the quarters to Stern or Williams or whoever owns the rights to the table now.

I know people who keep their tables in coin op mode but they also have a key and a bowl of quarters next to the machine. They just like to drop the quarters in!

 

[spoonman]

I've been thinking of ways to add the dimension of nerve and suspense of pinball to PA. I mean like in real life where you pay to play a game, you try to make the most out of every ball. Or playing against your friends, you have that competetive dimension and making that shot is totally different. That is a dimension on which pinball playing is built upon. For obvious reasons, getting a replay means nothing in PA but is satisfying in real life. I think you know what I mean. Playing now feels more like endless practising than competition, even the tournaments are lackning in this regard. It's even more restarting than normal.

Well, the ultimate solution for me would be online multiplayer. Think about the possibility to play a game against someone else online. It would be so awesome. You would get ranking points for each game you win and have tournaments and you know, this would take PA to another level. The ultimate online game. It would increase general interest more than any possible table release.
Now I'm sure Farsight have thought about this and for some reason it's not possible right now. But in the long run this MUST be a goal and it should be highly prioritized.

So, the other type of play we have is single person pay-to-play. Now I don't think anyone would be paying 1 $ per game, but how about paying 1 cent per game? Let's say you could buy 100 credits for 1 $. And the money would go as DONATIONS TO NEXT KICKSTARTER! There would also be a seperate leaderboard. I think your score should get on the regular leaderboard as well, so you don't miss out on that, but with a separate leaderboard for pay-to-play games maybe well get out of that restart type of play a bit and more importantly, add the dimension of putting in stakes in a game. I mean, sure, 1 cent is not much, but I think it would make a big difference. Think about playing poker without stakes. It's pointless. I feel there is something similar lost in Pinball Arcade as it is now.
So you would buy 100 credits and use them to play. 1 game for 1 credit, 3 games for 2 credits, just like regualar. You get extra credits for replays and end of game number matching and so on. And as I said, with a dedicated leaderboard, this would add to playing value.

There might be some problems with crashed games and lost credits, but as long as it's very clear that all money you pay are donations and you play at own risk and it's totally voluntairy and that Farsight takes no responsibilty, no refunds and so on, I think this would be a very appreciated system.

Maybe it's not possible on all platforms, but for android at least this should be possible?

What do you guys think?

Why not?
Hell, make it 10cents per game.
It's not enough money lot care about spending and its just enough to make you feel something when matching those numbers for a free game. When there is nothing at stake that can become very boring. So yeah, I'd have no problem with it and the money would go to a good cause.

It would also make every game "count". No more constant rage quiting every time you have a bad first ball.

 

[Worf]

Demanding payment to play? While a nice idea, the problem is that TPA will be bombshelled to oblivion in the ratings.

The feedback will have hundreds of comments like "I just paid $5 for the damn table, and I now have to pay MORE to play it? RIPOFF! DO NOT BUY! STEALS MONEY!"

Only way that's possible is if it's all completely free.

Of course, for tournaments, I think FS should make the last score of the table you play what counts. Not your highest score amongst all your plays, just the last game. Which means if you scored high, you have to decide if you really want to play another game - it's now a huge gamble. Also means the rankings can change every minute...

 

[switch3flip]

Very interesting to hear some thoughts. Interesting as I thought that kickstarter donations would be a harmless way of having the money go somewhere that would somehow come back to us in the long run. But "kickstarter donation" seems to have left a bad taste in some mouths, which in its own way is a reflection on how farsight has handled this whole thing. The kickstarter idea wasn't in itself a way to raise kickstarter funds, it was an answer to the question "where should the money go if I buy some credits". I thought it would be more of a bonus that the money went to kickstarter.
I mean 1 cent is close to nothing, it's just a symbolic amount. I personally even agree with Spoonman, I could pay 10 cents. Just for a game once in a while, if I want to gamble a little and try to make it to the paid leaderboard.

I hope no one misunderstood; regular free games as they are now would be just like they are now. Pay-to-play would just be an alternative, totally optional. Warm up with a couple of regular free games, then go ahead and try a 1 cent game to see how you will do. I mean, 1 cent is nothing (almost). It's just for fun. And if you Think 1 cent is much, well you might even be the one getting the most out of it then, with that excitement and adrenaline pumping and everything
Unfortunately I think Worf might be right,

Anyway, thanks for sharing your opinions.

But what about PA online multiplayer. Heven't seen anything about it, are there any plans? It can't be that hard to make? I mean the live feed doesn't have to be perfect at all. It could be lagging, low resolution and have framedrops or whatnot, your'e only watching some other person playing anyway. There doesn't even have to be any view of opponent playing at all, just a score update after each ball would be fine. Is this really hard to program or are farsight not interested?

 

[Andrew Sully]

I've been thinking of ways to add the dimension of nerve and suspense of pinball to PA. I mean like in real life where you pay to play a game, you try to make the most out of every ball. Or playing against your friends, you have that competetive dimension and making that shot is totally different. That is a dimension on which pinball playing is built upon. For obvious reasons, getting a replay means nothing in PA but is satisfying in real life. I think you know what I mean. Playing now feels more like endless practising than competition, even the tournaments are lackning in this regard. It's even more restarting than normal.

Well, the ultimate solution for me would be online multiplayer. Think about the possibility to play a game against someone else online. It would be so awesome. You would get ranking points for each game you win and have tournaments and you know, this would take PA to another level. The ultimate online game. It would increase general interest more than any possible table release.
Now I'm sure Farsight have thought about this and for some reason it's not possible right now. But in the long run this MUST be a goal and it should be highly prioritized.

So, the other type of play we have is single person pay-to-play. Now I don't think anyone would be paying 1 $ per game, but how about paying 1 cent per game? Let's say you could buy 100 credits for 1 $. And the money would go as DONATIONS TO NEXT KICKSTARTER! There would also be a seperate leaderboard. I think your score should get on the regular leaderboard as well, so you don't miss out on that, but with a separate leaderboard for pay-to-play games maybe well get out of that restart type of play a bit and more importantly, add the dimension of putting in stakes in a game. I mean, sure, 1 cent is not much, but I think it would make a big difference. Think about playing poker without stakes. It's pointless. I feel there is something similar lost in Pinball Arcade as it is now.
So you would buy 100 credits and use them to play. 1 game for 1 credit, 3 games for 2 credits, just like regualar. You get extra credits for replays and end of game number matching and so on. And as I said, with a dedicated leaderboard, this would add to playing value.

There might be some problems with crashed games and lost credits, but as long as it's very clear that all money you pay are donations and you play at own risk and it's totally voluntairy and that Farsight takes no responsibilty, no refunds and so on, I think this would be a very appreciated system.

Maybe it's not possible on all platforms, but for android at least this should be possible?

What do you guys think?

No sorry, bad idea. Kickstarter is good, pay to play is bad. A donate button for liscensing or link to kickstarter is better idea. And something like the app on the pc which allows people in Mame to play arcade games against each other.

 

[Ryan Routon]

we are actually looking into this and it seems this may be given my highest priority soon. Timed tournaments will be in the next update (and the next Beta) so look forward to that. So now you will have, for example, half an hour to get the best score. This takes away the endurance part, no more 8 hour games. We are also looking into head to head for the near future, so we have been listening!

 

[Baron Rubik]

...so we have been listening!

One person says "pay to play" and Farsight management not only listen, but allocate this to you as your main task!

How many people have been shouting on the Android Forum 'Native controller support', 'Google Play Framework' and 'rework of existing scripted tables (Black Knight)'? This goes without mentioning Bug fixes.
Grrrrrr.

 

[Ryan Routon]

problem is none of the other things you mentioned bring money into the company *shrugs* not my decision. That being said I did receive a shield in the mail so i can get the controller working with that, though it appears to have the same trigger issues. All of those things are on my list (except the BK thing, not my area) but we are trying to prioritize what will bring in more people and keep their attention as well.

 

[Ryan Routon]

also i have no idea of how or if they are going to charge for this, i was just referring to the multiplayer aspect that people have been wanting across the board on facebook and such. Keep in mind my time is spread in other areas, some non pinball related.

 

[switch3flip]

Wow, looking into head-to-head! That would be so awesome!!!

 

[jaredmorgs]

One person says "pay to play" and Farsight management not only listen, but allocate this to you as your main task!

How many people have been shouting on the Android Forum 'Native controller support', 'Google Play Framework' and 'rework of existing scripted tables (Black Knight)'? This goes without mentioning Bug fixes.
Grrrrrr.

problem is none of the other things you mentioned bring money into the company *shrugs* not my decision. That being said I did receive a shield in the mail so i can get the controller working with that, though it appears to have the same trigger issues. All of those things are on my list (except the BK thing, not my area) but we are trying to prioritize what will bring in more people and keep their attention as well.

This was going to be a negative post, but I reframed it.

Head to head play could be interesting. Doesn't GPG offer a multiplayer option as part of the framework? It is that something that the company needs to host, but Google can promote in the Play Games app.

Great to hear that controller support and GPG is still a possibility.

 

[debuggiest]

The problem with accepting smaller amounts of money is the processing fees. Eg: for someone to use paypal for payment, the amount has to be more than a dollar, or else all you're doing is paying paypal's fees. That said, I'm quite content with paying a one-time fee of ~$5 for a pair of tables each month.

 

[MonkeyGrass]

problem is none of the other things you mentioned bring money into the company *shrugs* not my decision. That being said I did receive a shield in the mail so i can get the controller working with that, though it appears to have the same trigger issues. All of those things are on my list (except the BK thing, not my area) but we are trying to prioritize what will bring in more people and keep their attention as well.

Hmmmmm. So a great running game with controller support and head to head multiplayer that your customers have been clamoring for for the last several months doesn't bring money into the company? I would think that that would rather tend to increase sales... but maybe that's just me I know I have a hard time recommending this game to other hardcore gamers and pinball fans because of its ongoing issues. If these issues were to be fixed I know at least another dozen people I would personally recommend the game to that would buy it. And I know I'm not alone.

 

[Baron Rubik]

Hmmmmm. So a great running game with controller support and head to head multiplayer that your customers have been clamoring for for the last several months doesn't bring money into the company? I would think that that would rather tend to increase sales... but maybe that's just me I know I have a hard time recommending this game to other hardcore gamers and pinball fans because of its ongoing issues. If these issues were to be fixed I know at least another dozen people I would personally recommend the game to that would buy it. And I know I'm not alone.

I've stopped recommending TPA also, as the people I have done to previously, have pretty much all complained back at me about bugs and issues with tables.
Only recently - I work with a guy who used to own a real T2 table, he tried TPA on my tablet one lunch break a month ago, it took him less than 2 mins to find the 'ball through the skull bug' and a further minute to hand the tablet back uninterested.

This is even more the case since the table packs have been less inspiring.

 

[spoonman]

I've stopped recommending TPA also, as the people I have done to previously, have pretty much all complained back at me about bugs and issues with tables.
Only recently - I work with a guy who used to own a real T2 table, he tried TPA on my tablet one lunch break a month ago, it took him less than 2 mins to find the 'ball through the skull bug' and a further minute to hand the tablet back uninterested.

This is even more the case since the table packs have been less inspiring.

The only complaint I've ever received when recommending TPA to friends is "This is awesome, but where is the online co-op so we can actually play it together?"

Other than the lack of online modes like Zen has - most people I know are very happy with the product.