2016-Aug-26 20-minute tournament: EBD, PZone, Diner, LCA, JY, FT, CBW, EDCoG

[Dizzer2012]

Ball 1, knock down 1-7, get the 8-ball, drain.
Ball 2, do the same.

Now 112K super bonus is lit on Ball 3.

Get 5x bonus, and keep hitting 8-ball / corner pocket to rack up 5x bonuses. Maybe try to keep 6 of the 7 1-7 drops knocked down for an additional 6x7=42k, giving (112+42)x5 = 156x5 = 780k per shot to the corner pocket.

Don't be distracted by getting the extra ball from the left lane, the plan is to keep ball 3 in play for the full remainder of the 10 minutes.*

* That means nearly 10 minutes of not getting a power drain from the bumpers; good luck.

Thank you vm. Doesn't sound easy.

I like the 10 minutes. Maybe somebody can make a poll to find out what people like most for how many minutes, i'm curious... I think 5 is too short and 20 a little too long.

 

[Xanija]

No idea why I decided to play this tournament, too.many tables where I don't score even mediocre, but really bad.

Oh, and can we have a platinum league with only 10 players? The gold league on PC is really not fun anymore.

 

[shutyertrap]

No idea why I decided to play this tournament, too.many tables where I don't score even mediocre, but really bad.

Oh, and can we have a platinum league with only 10 players? The gold league on PC is really not fun anymore.

What makes you say that? Too many players? Or is it the same players dominating?

 

[Xanija]

Some players should be playing in a higher league. They are way better than the rest of the Gold tier and therefore it's useless even trying to compete with them. You experienced it yourself in the 5 min. tournament.

 

[shutyertrap]

Gotcha. And I completely agree that there is no point in competing against them when you know your skill limitations. I experience it all that time in my pinball league, when one of our top players is in a grouping with me. Literally the only way I can hope to beat them is if they get house balls. Not once have I beaten them with skill, so the only way to make it fun is by siding with them and mocking them for not beating you even worse. And that's with a one time 3 ball experience. Give them a week and unlimited plays? Forget it.

 

[invitro]

Give them a week and unlimited plays? Forget it.

I don't know if you're referring to real pinball or TPA, but it doesn't matter: if a player is significantly more skilled than you, you have a better chance in the week of unlimited plays than in a single game. The reason is that you need luck to win, and the way of getting that luck is to make tons and tons of plays. I can't prove this (yet!). But I will bet you that if you make a standings table with only the first game of each player, for a TPA regular tourney, the good players will be at the top even more often than they already are.

 

[invitro]

Some players should be playing in a higher league. They are way better than the rest of the Gold tier and therefore it's useless even trying to compete with them. You experienced it yourself in the 5 min. tournament.

There is certainly seems to be* an inpenetrable Platinum sub-tier in Steam Gold. If this is a problem, and I'm not convinced that it is, it's caused by promoting too many players from Silver, or not demoting enough.

* Or maybe there isn't. A-Jey in particular was not in the top tier a couple of months ago, and now he's threatening to break in it. And yours truly wasn't in it when tourneys started on Steam, but I'm in the top part of the top tier now.

 

[Xanija]

He was referring to real life pinball.

To be honest: Whether you and I compete in 1 game or in unlimited games, I won't stay a chance other than being lucky or you being unlucky. The more games you have, the better are your chances to win. Skill beats luck in the long run, simple as that.

 

[shutyertrap]

I don't know if you're referring to real pinball or TPA, but it doesn't matter: if a player is significantly more skilled than you, you have a better chance in the week of unlimited plays than in a single game. The reason is that you need luck to win, and the way of getting that luck is to make tons and tons of plays. I can't prove this (yet!). But I will bet you that if you make a standings table with only the first game of each player, for a TPA regular tourney, the good players will be at the top even more often than they already are.

I don't agree, and I base it entirely on my experience with single game playing in my monthly pinball league (real tables). I have seen numerous times where the top ten player just has a bad game, sometimes so atrocious that they come in 4th (we play in groups of 4). I had an instance just this last month, where I beat the guy by less than 1000 on Revenge From Mars, but because there was a mechanical issue with the machine, we were asked to replay our round. That very next play he destroyed me by over 100 million.

I agree that given multiple plays the average player has a greater chance at a better score, but giving the great players the same amount of chances is only going to do the same for them. My great score is an elite players average score.

 

[Xanija]

There is certainly seems to be* an inpenetrable Platinum sub-tier in Steam Gold. If this is a problem, and I'm not convinced that it is, it's caused by promoting too many players from Silver, or not demoting enough.

Of course it's a problem. Look at the top players and look at the rest in Gold.Even if you demoted the lower 50% in the Gold tier, nothing would change. You would eventually end in a Gold tier, which would be the same as my suggested Platinum tier. I think the player base is big enough (or the skill differences in the player base) to allow for more than 3 tiers.

Do I need to be in Gold? No. I'd be perfectly fine playing in Silver. I don't think it would solve the root problem, which is the giant skill gap between players.

 

[shutyertrap]

He was referring to real life pinball.

To be honest: Whether you and I compete in 1 game or in unlimited games, I won't stay a chance other than being lucky or you being unlucky. The more games you have, the better are your chances to win. Skill beats luck in the long run, simple as that.

Exactly. And based on comments where people landed in the top 10 of the tourney leaderboard after 5-10 plays and claiming that's a lot for them, versus my attacking a table 30+ times over 2 days sometimes to only land in top 20, clearly there is a skill versus luck equation. I'm not arguing it's not fair or anything, just that often at the end of these things you just kinda throw your hands up in the air and say "what's the point?". I personally have way more fun being soundly beat quickly rather than repeatedly beaten down over a week. That's partly why I'm not participating this month, because I know 4 of the 8 tables are no fun to me on their own, let alone trying to actually post a good score. There have been other times where I enjoy the tables despite my inability to score well, and I do play then.

It's funny though, my goal going from bronze to silver to gold level has never been about taking the top spots, merely advancing. Now that I'm in gold, it's about playing to have fun.

 

[invitro]

The more games you have, the better are your chances to win. Skill beats luck in the long run, simple as that.

So you're saying that the more games that an unskilled player has, the better his chances to win. Funny, that seems like the opposite of what you and syt are arguing. And it's very easy and simple-minded to just blurt out a cliche like your second sentence. That doesn't mean it's true. Skill beats luck in the short run, too, you know.

 

[invitro]

I'm not arguing it's not fair or anything, just that often at the end of these things you just kinda throw your hands up in the air and say "what's the point?". I personally have way more fun being soundly beat quickly rather than repeatedly beaten down over a week.

You've mentioned these sentiments before. The thing I don't understand: why is it so important to you to finish high, or have a chance of winning? I know if Tarek or Dizzer2012 enters, I have no chance, and don't mind in the slightest. I play to improve my scores and position. I guess I could answer "what's the point?" by saying the point is to improve, and see the results of your improvement in hard numbers.

But if you can't have fun without having a chance to finish #1 in Gold, then sure, I can see that the current setup would be frustrating. Maybe you should petition Farsight to give trophies for participation?

 

[Xanija]

So you're saying that the more games that an unskilled player has, the better his chances to win.

Which part of "Skill beats luck in the long run" was unclear? I thought it was pretty clear, but I'm glad to explain it again, if reading and trying to understand doesn't give a better result.

 

[shutyertrap]

So you're saying that the more games that an unskilled player has, the better his chances to win. Funny, that seems like the opposite of what you and syt are arguing. And it's very easy and simple-minded to just blurt out a cliche like your second sentence. That doesn't mean it's true. Skill beats luck in the short run, too, you know.

He didn't say an unskilled player, and I actually read his whole paragraph as inferring you were a better player than him, thus the 'you' in question is regarding a more skilled player having more games will only increase his chances at winning.

Think of it like the Hunger Games. Kids just coming of age get one entry, as opposed to older kids who are more likely to have a fighting chance getting multiple entries. There's still that odd time though where the single entry gets selected. If you did 10 draws though, it's more likely the older kids get chosen, maybe even multiple times.

 

[invitro]

I think the player base is big enough (or the skill differences in the player base) to allow for more than 3 tiers.

So exactly how many tiers are you suggesting? Can you prove that is the ideal number? Can you even prove that your number is better than three is? If Farsight went to this number, would you promise not to beg for even more tiers in a few months?

Here's one thing that I do think is a problem: Farsight's point system. If Tarek and Dizzer2012 enter, they are almost guaranteed to get all the bonus points that you get only for finishing first or second. (Of course, this can easily be checked with the web data.) I think third place should get some bonus points, too, and the point curve should probably be exponential or some kind of concave-up curve, so that all places would get bonus points.

(Just in case: bonus points mean the points you get over the linear number of points. The current point system goes 100, 90, 85, 85-X, 85-2X, ... where X is the linear point difference. Thus #1 gets 100-(85+2X) = 15-2X bonus points, #2 gets 90-(85+X) = 5-X bonus points, and every other place gets zero bonus points. Maybe I should call them "supralinear" points. )

 

[shutyertrap]

You've mentioned these sentiments before. The thing I don't understand: why is it so important to you to finish high, or have a chance of winning? I know if Tarek or Dizzer2012 enters, I have no chance, and don't mind in the slightest. I play to improve my scores and position. I guess I could answer "what's the point?" by saying the point is to improve, and see the results of your improvement in hard numbers.

But if you can't have fun without having a chance to finish #1 in Gold, then sure, I can see that the current setup would be frustrating. Maybe you should petition Farsight to give trophies for participation?

You keep putting words in our mouths. Never once did I say a thing about only having fun if I can have a chance at #1. I did say limited entry play is a lot more enjoyable even in defeat than long term play with the same result. And I did come up with an answer to that, it was my TotM that ran for a year and a half. I had way more fun with that than any of the monthly official TPA tourneys run by FarSight. And news flash, I never won any of the TotM tourneys either.

 

[Dizzer2012]

No idea why I decided to play this tournament, too.many tables where I don't score even mediocre, but really bad.

Oh, and can we have a platinum league with only 10 players? The gold league on PC is really not fun anymore.

I agreed with you a while back. Make it platinum league with 1 player so he can play with himself, you know who i'm talking about. That guy is obsessed and plays full time all day long. Even with this warm weather... i'm not playing half the time he is playing. So i agreed but not anymore, just playing for fun now, after the weekend i have to work. Mr. u know who don't, got all day the time. So even if i wanted to make it fulltime i couldn't. Maybe when i like at least 6 out of 8 tables very much, maybe then i'll play like i'm obsessed like i did with the 4 dec. tournament. Those where good tables! Just play to beat your own scores, that keeps it fun.

 

[invitro]

Which part of "Skill beats luck in the long run" was unclear? I thought it was pretty clear, but I'm glad to explain it again, if reading and trying to understand doesn't give a better result.

Nothing's unclear. You said "The more games you have, the better are your chances to win", which clearly implies that unskilled players have a better chance to win the more games they play. I just find it puzzling that you'd make this claim, as it seems in odds with your other claims.

 

[invitro]

That guy is obsessed and plays full time all day long.

Be careful, buddy. I watch tourney results closely, and you play almost as much as anyone, and certainly as much as the person you're talking about. (Or at least post new scores as often as he does.) There are many people in Steam Gold that play a lot more than he does.