Addressing a question from a thread that was closed (again)....

[DrainoBraino]

At the end of the day, this isn't really unprecedented or really even thread worthy IMO.

There's many threads that I consider not thread worthy, but I just don't hang around or comment. I don't understand why this is such a lighting rod. This topic is relevant to me as I do plan on getting PS4, maybe not at launch, but soon after. My decision is mostly based on how the PSN games will be handled, TPA at the front. I'm not expecting or demanding anything, I just want to know how it's gonna go down so I can make an informed decision. I do have opinions and hopes on how it will be handled. I always welcome a healthy debate and will never stoop to name calling or personal attacks.

Every console cycle, previous gen games get ported to the next gen consoles, sometimes in the same year. Examples: on 360: Madden '06, Fight Night, NBA 2k6, to name a few, all released on both Xbox and Xbox 360. The idea that owning the Xbox version entitles you to the 360 version for free or discounted is absurd. If it wasn't for iPhone/iPad model, we would never have a thread like this.

You lost me here. Not all games are ported to the next gen, not even close. what about PSN games like TPA? Will it be ported? Sony has said that current PSN games may be streamed from a cloud service. That doesn't sound like they have plans to port any PSN games.

Your analogy of Xbox version to 360 version does not hold here because we aren't talking about different or new versions. These PSN games are the same version, on the same network, which apparently won't work on the new PS4. My wish, and I would say most others agree, is that they do transfer PSN games to the PS4. Most do not want to re-buy classic titles and dlc that are on PSN.

Yes, because of the ios and PSN model of downloadable games on a network, this sets a new precedent for the expectations of gamers. Thus this discussion. It's not a "bad" thing, it's a "new" thing and no one really knows how to handle it.

Microsoft faced a huge backlash this past week when they said the new Xbox would be always on and the director insulted people who live in rural areas:
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/04/05/microsoft-creative-director-on-always-online-deal-with-it
http://games.yahoo.com/blogs/plugge...rsy-always-xbox-twitter-tirade-173337715.html

 

[Mark W**a]

PSN games will not transfer, it's as simple as that.

They'd have to be rewritten to work on ps4. That's called porting.

Pinball Arcade on ps4 is not the ps3 version of the game. It's the ps4 version with new graphics.

That's what I meant with my Xbox 360 analogy. If say, madden 06 was a digital download on Xbox 1, owning that version would not entitle you to the Xbox 360 version of Madden 06. It would actually "transfer", because 360 had software emulation BC. However, your transferred Xbox 1 version would not be the same as the 360 version with its enhanced graphics. This isn't an analogy it's a near 1:1 comparison and puts it into a correct perspective.

Microsoft fired him, btw, over those comments. They then leaked that NextBox will allow you to play games offline, and not block used game sales. Thier hand was certainly forced in this regard, as the negative backlash has been immense. Also 360 backwards compatibility will be handled by selling an optional 100-150$ add on.

This helps Nextbox's chances but I'm still pissed about the low specs and integrated Kinect.

I never insulted anyone. My posts were not altered and I was not warned. Psueduokongs lost his mind and went bonkers. All I said was his argument was flimsy and to just stop. I said he must have won lots of debates. Was that an insult? Maybe, but come on his argument was "I don't know why it is it just is!!!" Lol.

 

[DrainoBraino]

@Mark

ooh they fired him? didn't know that I hadn't kept up with the story. I'll have to read further about the netbox thing and all that.

I understand porting. it's just disappointing that PSN games won't work on PS4. YES Im having a hard time accepting it, ok I admit that. I need a 10 step program or something to deal with it. I decided I will not buy a PS4 if this is how it's gonna be. I have all these classic games I bought and I'm not buying them again, it's just that simple. I don't do the fps games and all the online stuff so my plan is to keep the PS3 going to play my classics and TPA.

Now, the only way I'm getting a PS4 is if TPA next gen comes out and is looking good and playing properly with minimal bugs. *crosses fingers*

 

[bavelb]

To put it into perspective, the amount of work it entails fro developers (porting from the Cell to the new x86 platform) is basically like asking to get the PC version for free if you buy it on iOS. I very much doubt that any XBLA or PSN publisher/developer (remember its not MS or Sony who have to do this, its all those developers who you want to do this) will port their games over for free, and we will either see refurbished "classics" like the nintendo store has been doing for years (including the need to rebuy them for reduced prices), or a cloud/streaming solution like Onlive and Gaikai in time, which you will pay for as well.

Now when you say classics, you might mean PS2/PS1 emulated games, and perhaps they will port those over for free. But don't expect "true" PSN (or XBLA!) games like Journey, TPA, Outland, (or your discbased/Games on Demand versions for that matteR) and such to make the jump.

Doesnt matter too much to me tbh, I never got the whole backwards compatibility thing for a new console. I do get that its harder for people to "get over it" now that its downloadable services (at least during the 16-bit era you couldnt plop in the NES cartridges in a SNES, but with discs and downloads this "barrier" is not as visible for people). Im currently collecting games for my 360 (both digital and discs) and PS3 (only discbased exclusives) to tide me over till I decide to get my next gen console (which is likely not before 2015) but also to play them after. I think this gens classics will remain playable a lot longer than last 3D generations, as we have made the leap to HD this gen.

 

[superballs]

PSN games will not transfer, it's as simple as that.

They'd have to be rewritten to work on ps4. That's called porting.

Pinball Arcade on ps4 is not the ps3 version of the game. It's the ps4 version with new graphics.

That's what I meant with my Xbox 360 analogy. If say, madden 06 was a digital download on Xbox 1, owning that version would not entitle you to the Xbox 360 version of Madden 06. It would actually "transfer", because 360 had software emulation BC. However, your transferred Xbox 1 version would not be the same as the 360 version with its enhanced graphics. This isn't an analogy it's a near 1:1 comparison and puts it into a correct perspective.

Microsoft fired him, btw, over those comments. They then leaked that NextBox will allow you to play games offline, and not block used game sales. Thier hand was certainly forced in this regard, as the negative backlash has been immense. Also 360 backwards compatibility will be handled by selling an optional 100-150$ add on.

This helps Nextbox's chances but I'm still pissed about the low specs and integrated Kinect.

I never insulted anyone. My posts were not altered and I was not warned. Psueduokongs lost his mind and went bonkers. All I said was his argument was flimsy and to just stop. I said he must have won lots of debates. Was that an insult? Maybe, but come on his argument was "I don't know why it is it just is!!!" Lol.

This is very correct.

Just because the games don't come on physical media does not make them portable between systems. Essentially, the architectural differences between XBOX 360 and the next MS console are still going to be a barrier. Depending on how the BC works though (True BC vs emulation) some or all games could end up playable.

Good news about offline play.
Honesly, I don't like the always online idea at all and that was making me very very apprehensive about adopting next gen gaming at all. Honestly, for what I spend on games in a year i could probably buy a high profile pinball table so changing hobbies won't be that that traumatic.

What I would like to see vis a vis digital distribution is an online marketplace that allows you to exchange MS points or money exchanged via account for the rights to digital distribution games.

Another good idea would be the ability for two friends to "exchange" games for a set period of time (or until one person wants their game back), in turn leaving the game file on the other person's hard drive, but running in demo/trial mode (since the file is already there and no lengthy download is necessary, if the person really likes the game it's an almost guaranteed sale).

Depending on MS's XBLA policies I may even grab my first Sony Console since the PS1

 

[pseudokings]

I never insulted anyone. My posts were not altered and I was not warned. Psueduokongs lost his mind and went bonkers. All I said was his argument was flimsy and to just stop. I said he must have won lots of debates. Was that an insult? Maybe, but come on his argument was "I don't know why it is it just is!!!" Lol.

Sad. Just sad. O'well, that's the internet for you.

 

[Jeff Strong]

And some people wonder why the other thread was closed....just let it go, guys.

 

[Sean DonCarlos]

If there were still substantive points to discuss - civilly - they may be continued here, and this thread will remain open so long as it remains free of problems. But consider this thread like a pinball machine already on "double danger"...I'm not interested in moderating more personal attacks.

Was I not clear before? Drop it now...both of you.

 

[Squid]

"I don't know why it is, it just is."... I dig this kind of mind set.

The more you look at things, the harder they are to see.

Having a sense of wonder is one thing, getting caught up in it is another.

My 2 sense.

 

[Edan-Grossman]

There is really no reason for anyone to be upset at whatever may happen to the next generation of TPA. Worst case scenario is that we need to repurchase every table, while the best case is that we get the upgrades for free.

In both cases, we will be getting significant improvements to TPA in the graphics and physics simulation. The difference is just whether or not we will need to pay for our tables again and for how much. The improvements that we will get could very well be worth the full price of repurchasing the tables, we'll have to wait and see.

I'm sure that Farsight is paying close attention to the discussion and is aware of our concerns, so I'm sure that they will take our concerns into account when making their decisions.

For now, we still don't know all that much about the next generation of TPA, so I say we should wait for the next interview and see if any of our questions and speculation will be answered or confirmed.

 

[smbhax]

Mike R's comments about the PC version being pretty close to the Xbox version, rendering-wise, have got me thinking that it makes the most sense for the PS4 version to be an entirely new game, ie Pinball Arcade 2 or something--because for PC and mobiles and so forth you can't just suddenly update the old renderer to a new fancier one that requires heavier hardware, since that could leave some people unable to play the game they purchased. So I'm thinking they'll just make it an entirely new title, and maybe start off with a whole bunch of tables included, like I dunno a dozen or so. They offer it on all platforms that can support it and stop bringing out new TPA(1) tables--and TPA'll have been out a couple years by then, which is the length of support they more or less promised at the start, so there you go.

EDIT: Oh hm granted the promo video from September of last year that was used for their Steam Greenlight listing promises table updates for "years to come" too, so eh that would kind of blow my projected timeline out of the water, unless they just release the PC tables at 2 per month or something instead of a whole bunch at the start like people probably expect.