Adieu, My Xbox Bretheren

[Ozzpot]

Ozzpot, claiming the PS3 is obviously the runner-up this generation is very Western-centric. Look at the whole world, the PS3 has obviously caught up, if not surpassed the 360.

According to official figures, the Xbox 360 has sold 67.2m units, the PS3 63.9m. But it's not the whole story, and Rafie is right, we don't need to stir the pot. It doesn't matter.

The only point I was making is that someone switching from one console to another because some DLC is late is an extreme reaction.

 

[mmmagnetic]

You know, the fact that we're even having this discussion reminds me that despite the bumps in the road so far, being able to play TPA on that many devices it pretty fascinating. I recently realized that if I include PHOF, I can play pinball on my 360, the iPad 3, my old iPod Touch, my Mac, my PSP and my 3DS. Every system has its pros and cons, but man, that's a lot of choice!

 

[laughing_lunatic]

too true mmmagnetic... never more than a few steps from TPA.

 

[DopedToInfinity]

Well put mmmagnetic! I used to want a laptop 10 years ago for vpinmame, the idea of portable pinball machines was awesome! I have since got one and learnt how heavy they are and how much the battery sucks. I just can't believe how a thin ipad can handle them so well. I was lost at work tonight without my iphone (it's having it's battery replaced) on a quiet shift I play TPA.

 

[PiN WiZ]

On a busy shift I play TPA...

 

[Kolchak357]

I play at lunch everyday, and check this forum on breaks.

 

[Supermans]

Believe me, I've played the PS3 version for an extended period of time and while it does look great, the lag and bumper buttons completely ruin the pinball experience for me.

Agreed , the PS3 version is unplayable because of the lag. I don't know how,it passed the beta stage.

 

[Richard B]

MS used to be so good at getting DLC first, now the most important DLC in history, and they let the PS3 lap them by 2 freaking months because of a bunch of yankers!

 

[Brandon Debes]

MS used to be so good at getting DLC first, now the most important DLC in history, and they let the PS3 lap them by 2 freaking months because of a bunch of yankers!

Ha! I'm not even going to argue the "most important" point with you, but the only timed DLC exclusives Microsoft care about are the ones that are going to make them a bunch of money, like Caulidoody maps.

 

[Matt McIrvin]

I can actually see Microsoft's side in all of this. TPA is extremely small potatoes for them. Buggy XBLA games hurt their brand, so they're devoted to keeping them out, but they have no economic reason to do any more QA on an individual title than is required to say "this is no good; we're not shipping it". If a low-profile game has several blocking issues, and the originating company won't find or fix them on their own, MS has very little reason to work with the author to expedite matters; they'll just repeatedly reject the game for every one of them in succession. It's up to the author to do what they can to prevent that situation.

(Disclosure: I was a Microsoft employee for a little while a few years ago, and still own a few shares. However, I did not work in any capacity related to the XBox, games or outside DLC, and have no inside knowledge of these things, and of course all opinions are just my personal uninformed opinions.)

 

[Brandon Debes]

Everything the man above me said is perfectly sensible.

 

[Sean DonCarlos]

Everything the man above me said is perfectly sensible.

Rejecting a game because it behaves badly when the user removes the memory card mid-access is about as sensible as saying my car stereo is no good because it can't play music properly if I forcibly remove the CD while it's trying to read it.

I understand now from reading the old TCRs that it is technically correct for Microsoft to reject the update over this issue, but that does not make it sensible for it to do so. The issue does not cause file corruption nor does it even crash the game, affects only a tiny fraction of customers, and is easily recoverable if it does happen. Common sense would dictate that the issue needs fixed but not necessarily immediately, and that the update can be released in the meantime, perhaps with a notice to customers using memory cards to make sure the thing doesn't get knocked loose during play.

And if Microsoft is this particular about such a minor issue, how in hell did Skyrim (and Oblivion before it) with its plethora of game-breaking bugs, several of which required no user stupidity and did crash the game or lead to save state corruption, ever make it through? Did Bethesda get a pass just because it was Bethesda and Microsoft didn't want to stand in front of The Elder Scrolls train?

 

[DooMStalK]

Believe me, I've played the PS3 version for an extended period of time and while it does look great, the lag and bumper buttons completely ruin the pinball experience for me.

Agreed , the PS3 version is unplayable because of the lag. I don't know how,it passed the beta stage.

I play the PS3 version and don't experience ANY lag, which is odd, since every PS3 has the same main specification (processor, gpu, memory etc.).

Perhaps the cause is something external, like TV / controller setup?

 

[Brandon Debes]

Rejecting a game because it behaves badly when the user removes the memory card mid-access is about as sensible as saying my car stereo is no good because it can't play music properly if I forcibly remove the CD while it's trying to read it.

I understand now from reading the old TCRs that it is technically correct for Microsoft to reject the update over this issue, but that does not make it sensible for it to do so. The issue does not cause file corruption nor does it even crash the game, affects only a tiny fraction of customers, and is easily recoverable if it does happen. Common sense would dictate that the issue needs fixed but not necessarily immediately, and that the update can be released in the meantime, perhaps with a notice to customers using memory cards to make sure the thing doesn't get knocked loose during play.

And if Microsoft is this particular about such a minor issue, how in hell did Skyrim (and Oblivion before it) with its plethora of game-breaking bugs, several of which required no user stupidity and did crash the game or lead to save state corruption, ever make it through? Did Bethesda get a pass just because it was Bethesda and Microsoft didn't want to stand in front of The Elder Scrolls train?

As has been mentioned here several times already, the technical certification process is not aimed at finding software bugs like those with which every Bethesda title is rife. It is about looking for things like how the software handles peripheral removal in various states. They explicitly state a list of every thing they are looking for and then have a QA tech. walk each submission right down the list ticking off boxes. As Mike said, this is a long list, and I respect the fact that it is probably pretty easy for a small team to miss something.

But I think one clarification that seems needed is the fact that USB drives are considered by the system to be "Memory Units" in addition to the proprietary plastic solid state memory cards that fit in the old form factor 360 consoles. I keep all my DLC on a USB stick so that I can move it around to different consoles throughout my house and take it to friends' houses. And the USB drive I have won't physically fit into the front USB ports on the older console revisions (behind the little flappy door; meant for controllers), so I have it on a little 3" USB dongle cable. And guess what, pets and children and tripping passers-by alike can easily pull this thing out of the console. My point is that while it's perhaps not a common scenario, it is a more realistic one than the image being repeated here of some mental incompetent pulling an old school 64Mb MU directly out of the console just as he clicks on a DLC table in the menu. My kid is fairly liable to yank my USB drive out while I'm playing. So to Matt McIrvin's point, Microsoft are just protecting their brand from bad user impressions of the way XBLA software reacts to these situations.

 

[Ark Malmeida]

The thing that I keep hearing mentioned is that this issue will occur if the memory unit is removed at any point during which the table is being played. The way that I read it, this is only an issue during table loading, which is like 5-10 seconds (or less) in my experience. If that's the case, then it's a really small percentage scenario we're talking about here.

 

[Sean DonCarlos]

As has been mentioned here several times already, the technical certification process is not aimed at finding software bugs like those with which every Bethesda title is rife. It is about looking for things like how the software handles peripheral removal in various states. They explicitly state a list of every thing they are looking for and then have a QA tech. walk each submission right down the list ticking off boxes. As Mike said, this is a long list, and I respect the fact that it is probably pretty easy for a small team to miss something.

I know all that; you've enlightened me on that once already (and thank you for it). But it seems to me that a AAA title like Skyrim crashing and burning repeatedly within the first 30 minutes of play is going to contribute far more to bad user impressions than some minor issue with a memory card or USB stick.

 

[Brandon Debes]

I know all that; you've enlightened me on that once already (and thank you for it). But it seems to me that a AAA title like Skyrim crashing and burning repeatedly within the first 30 minutes of play is going to contribute far more to bad user impressions than some minor issue with a memory card or USB stick.

Meh, I think that contributes more to bad user impressions of Bethesda than of Microsoft. But a lot of XBLA titles come from studios the size of FarSight. If they relaxed technical requirements they might end up with a lot of glitchy downloadable games that produce the cumulative effect of the player thinking, "man, every time I download a game from Xbox LIVE it crashes. I should stop doing that and stick to full retail releases."

 

[Tabe]

According to official figures, the Xbox 360 has sold 67.2m units, the PS3 63.9m. ,

A jerk would ask if that's because of all the people buying multiple 360s because of the RROD

Tabe

 

[Jeff Strong]

A jerk would ask if that's because of all the people buying multiple 360s because of the RROD

Tabe

heh, it's certainly the reason I've bought 2....and I know many others who are in the same boat.

 

[Ozzpot]

heh, it's certainly the reason I've bought 2....and I know many others who are in the same boat.

My first was replaced I think 3 times under warranty, so even though that's four consoles I owned, I guess it only counts as one sale. I did buy a Slim since then though, so I've definitely added two to that sales figure. Tabe might have a point.

Having said that, my brother-in-law for example has only bought an Xbox once, as it has never gone wrong, but had to buy a new PS3 because his bricked. So it's not all one way - the PS3 is not infallible.

Also, of my other friends, let's say my four closest friends, all four have Xboxes, only one has a PS3. And we're not gaming friends - I know these guys through various things unrelated to gaming. We all made decisions on what console to buy independently.

Judging by that, I trust the figures. But I know others may (and of course will) disagree.