Advice for first video pinball game

[Mark W**a]

Zen
- outstanding graphics
- responsive flippers

Not so sure about the first. Pinball Arcade is full 1080P to Zens 720.

Sure, there are things like animated characters, more effects, things you can't do on a real pinball machine. But artistically they are balls, pun intended. The production values just do not compare to a 90's Bally/Williams or a 00's Stern, not even close. From DMD animations to art to music, sound effects, the whole nine yards, there is no comparison here. And it's not like TPA tables are poly starved or lack good lighting. Though PS3 has some issues in the visual department, lack of consistency. When a table looks good on PS3 though, it's a showpiece (see Creature, Scared Stiff, etc.).

Part 2 is only an issue on PS3, and it's a mileage may vary type affair. Some have it others don't. No PS3 so don't ask me, but 360 version has zero input lag.

And finally something that doesn't ever get enough mention is game design. You're talking about, tables designed by legends of the pinball industry, guys like the Richies, Lawlor, Papadiuk, Nordman... Zen Pinball isn't bad or anything but, comparing the rulesets and overall design of the tables again, there is no contest IMO and pretty much any serious pinball player would agree.

IMO the difference between playing Zen and playing real pinball, or a Pinball arcade simulation of real pinball, is like the difference between playing Super Mario Bros. 3, or a -decent- modern indy developed 2D platformer. IE, no comparison sorry. Rayman Legends is pretty good, but it's destroyed by 2D games made 20+ years ago on ancient hardware like the Saturn, Genesis, SNES, NES. I hope this makes sense. Not to **** on modern developers of 2D stuff but, 99% of the time this is true, even when talking cream of the crop (Super Meat Boy, Rayman, Fez, Retro City). Not a 1 to 1 comparison and a little off topic, but you get what I'm saying.

 

[angryassdrummer]

playing the demos on xbla right now with my partner, so far seem to be favouring Pinball Fx 2 over The Pinball Arcade. not sure why though.
question- do i have to buy the core pack? im more interested in the Marvel tables and definitely the Star Wars tables coming soon

 

[Tabe]

There's no comparison then. Zen Pinball/Pinball FX, 2nd best digital pinball game, isn't realistic, doesn't feel like the real thing, tables have shoddy production values and are mostly pretty ho hum from my experience.

You referring to Zen or Zen 2? The very latest tables for Zen 2 are a big jump over the earliest Zen tables.

Not so sure about the first. Pinball Arcade is full 1080P to Zens 720.

Full 1080p? So what? The actual quality of the textures, the colors, everything is just better with Zen. Higher-res crap is still crap.

Sure, there are things like animated characters, more effects, things you can't do on a real pinball machine. But artistically they are balls, pun intended. The production values just do not compare to a 90's Bally/Williams or a 00's Stern, not even close. From DMD animations to art to music, sound effects, the whole nine yards, there is no comparison here.

That's all great but we're not playing the actual original tables. We're playing the TPA versions of them and Farsight's production values on a LOT of them are lacking.

And it's not like TPA tables are poly starved or lack good lighting.

A fair number of them lack good lighting. A LOT of them have colors that are just flat-out wrong. Harley Davidson, for example, looks nothing like the real table (again, this is on PS3).

Though PS3 has some issues in the visual department, lack of consistency. When a table looks good on PS3 though, it's a showpiece (see Creature, Scared Stiff, etc.).

Dunno if I'd go that far but the very best tables DO look good. The bad ones though - Black Knight, Harley, Twilight Zone (to some extent) - are really

Part 2 is only an issue on PS3, and it's a mileage may vary type affair. Some have it others don't. No PS3 so don't ask me, but 360 version has zero input lag.

Everyone has it - it's built into the physics engine. Farsight has admitted it. It's just a matter of whether people notice it or not. Since OP mentioned having a PS3, it was worth a mention.

And finally something that doesn't ever get enough mention is game design. You're talking about, tables designed by legends of the pinball industry, guys like the Richies, Lawlor, Papadiuk, Nordman... Zen Pinball isn't bad or anything but, comparing the rulesets and overall design of the tables again, there is no contest IMO and pretty much any serious pinball player would agree.

No argument there. Although I don't like the design of some of the TPA tables, there's no question that most of them are the absolute best in design. This is definitely an area where TPA dominates Zen. I would say, however, that the very best Zen tables are very, very good and, in fact, are better than some TPA tables.

IMO the difference between playing Zen and playing real pinball, or a Pinball arcade simulation of real pinball, is like the difference between playing Super Mario Bros. 3, or a -decent- modern indy developed 2D platformer. IE, no comparison sorry. Rayman Legends is pretty good, but it's destroyed by 2D games made 20+ years ago on ancient hardware like the Saturn, Genesis, SNES, NES. I hope this makes sense. Not to **** on modern developers of 2D stuff but, 99% of the time this is true, even when talking cream of the crop (Super Meat Boy, Rayman, Fez, Retro City). Not a 1 to 1 comparison and a little off topic, but you get what I'm saying.

Yeah, I get what you're saying. And generally I agree with you. I'm not a big fan on nonsense pinball games for the most part. Still, (some of) the Zen tables can be really, really entertaining even for someone who like serious pinball. I *love* real pinball and the tables in TPA. I've just grown so tired of the bajillion (technical term) issues in TPA. All I was trying to do with my post was highlight the differences between the two packages, which I think I did pretty fairly.

Tabe

 

[Tabe]

playing the demos on xbla right now with my partner, so far seem to be favouring Pinball Fx 2 over The Pinball Arcade. not sure why though.
question- do i have to buy the core pack? im more interested in the Marvel tables and definitely the Star Wars tables coming soon

I think the base pack is now free - or at least the game itself is - and you can buy whatever tables you want after that.

Tabe

 

[angryassdrummer]

got Pinball Fx 2 last night with the core pack of tables. i downloaded both demos of TPA & PF2..played them both with my wife and she much much preferred Pinball FX 2 so i went that route. Looking forward to getting the Marvel & Star Wars tables asap.
the difference was quite funny to watch actually... playing TPA (first) my wife sat there, enjoyed it, said it was quite fun. then i put on pinball fx with the Rome table
suddenly once the game started she was literally on the edge of her seat and telling me to shut the f$%^ up if i talked during her game lol it was great. we played hotseat on there for a couple hours, well past our bedtime ( she kicked my ass, usually with 3x the score id get)
thanks for everyones input- we are both quite addicted now

 

[ER777]

...To sum up:

Zen
- outstanding graphics
- responsive flippers
- good UI
- nice touches like sounds when the ball rolls and seeing spin on the ball
- physics are questionable - the ball is way too easy to catch and control
- very easy - see the comment on physics. Also, everything is tuned to keep the ball in play. While this removes the challenge entirely for elite players, for everybody else it can make the game very enjoyable
- great social connectivity and tie-ins with your friends

Pinball Arcade
- Real tables
- More realistic physics
- Challenging and unforgiving on a lot of the tables
- Major flaws in flipper interactions - balls passing through flippers, incorrect angles with the ball off the flippers, flipper lag
- Bugs, bugs, bugs
- Mediocre presentation/UI

...Tabe

I think this is a very good summary comparison of the PS3 versions, and is fair to both sides.

I always wonder what TPA is like on the XBox though, without the flipper issues you mentioned for PS3 it would be pretty amazing..

 

[smbhax]

Play the PS3 version at 720 rather than 1080 and it should be more or less like the Xbox version as far as the flippers are concerned.

 

[Matt McIrvin]

Play the PS3 version at 720 rather than 1080 and it should be more or less like the Xbox version as far as the flippers are concerned.

As far as it goes, TPA on the XBox is an awesome experience; it ought to be the showpiece platform, if only Farsight's troubles getting XBox releases out didn't prevent it from staying up to date.

The most impressive tables there are probably still Theatre of Magic and TotAN, since they were the ones in the best shape on initial release. They look beautiful and play great.

Monster Bash looks/plays great too, but, unless I'm misremembering (I've largely switched my playing over to Android), still has the old Frankenstein jackpot bug, since the update that initially gave us Monster Bash was the last one before the release troubles got insuperable.

 

[Tabe]

Play the PS3 version at 720 rather than 1080 and it should be more or less like the Xbox version as far as the flippers are concerned.

I do play at 720 on my PS3. If what you're saying is true then the Xbox version needs help, too.

Tabe

 

[Matt McIrvin]

Speaking personally, I've never found the XBox version to have any significant flipper lag problems, though a more accomplished pinball player might detect them. I can't speak for the PS3 version.

 

[smbhax]

And I can't speak for the Xbox version aside from what I've read here--but as far as I've heard, stuff like ball-through-the-flippers and the occasional flipper ricochet going off at a weird speed/angle has been common to all TPA versions.

 

[Korven]

I used to play the crap out of these 3 back in the day on the amiga 500; Pinball Dreams, Pinball Fantasies, Pinball Illusions.

As far as Zen goes; I only bought one table and it must been the worst $1 I ever spent.

 

[DrainoBraino]

I used to play the crap out of these 3 back in the day on the amiga 500; Pinball Dreams, Pinball Fantasies, Pinball Illusions.

As far as Zen goes; I only bought one table and it must been the worst $1 I ever spent.

Hmm...what table was it? None of them are that bad for $1, especially when compared with amiga pinball. But you probably pirated those. I know I did on my atari st.

 

[Metalzoic]

The nice thing about the 'Pinball Arcade' is that you can try out the tables before you purchase. With 'Zen' you can't even take a look at the playfield before you buy. This resulted in me buying 3 tables from Zen that I ended up hating. Take that into consideration. Also, any other pinball brand games are subpar in one way or the other.

Just my opinion

Hmmm... As far as I can remember you can demo every single Zen/FX2 table for free.

You can argue real physics vs video physics and real tables vs original tables all day. However from a graphics, presentation, quality control and production values standpoint Zen 2/FX2 is leaps better than TPA.
If you could only have one of them I would have to say Zen. TPA just has way to many problems and very little support.

 

[Jeff Strong]

Hmmm... As far as I can remember you can demo every single Zen/FX2 table for free.

He must've been referring to mobile, which has no demos for Zen, but you do get Sorcerer's Lair for free.

 

[Korven]

Sv: Advice for first video pinball game

Paranormal, played it not even a handfull of times. It just goes on and on and I can't get anything going really. Plus it just feels "stiff" somehow.

 

[Metalzoic]

He must've been referring to mobile, which has no demos for Zen, but you do get Sorcerer's Lair for free.

Ah, I didn't even know they made a mobile version.

 

[ER777]

Play the PS3 version at 720 rather than 1080 and it should be more or less like the Xbox version as far as the flippers are concerned.

I do play it in 720p on PS3, the flipper lag issues are lessened considerably but still there enough to notice. If I plug it into an old SD CRT TV then its perfectly responsive with zero lag, but of course it looks terrible.

I was imagining the XBox as providing that level of responsiveness but still with the HD good looks, so best of both worlds. My imagination has been wrong before though..

Paranormal, played it not even a handfull of times. It just goes on and on and I can't get anything going really. Plus it just feels "stiff" somehow.

Aw man, you bought the absolute worst table (my opinion) in the entire Zen collection.

 

[QuiGonJ]

I dunno, I played the World War Hulk table, which is pretty bad, and the Clone Wars table isn't much better. Putting 90 ga-jillion ramps on a table isn't the way it should go, IMO.

I agree that the ball physics seem rather floaty on PA, but I prefer that they are real tables.

How does one demo Zen tables? I haven't seen that option on either Android or Win8.

 

[jaredmorgs]

Paranormal, played it not even a handfull of times. It just goes on and on and I can't get anything going really. Plus it just feels "stiff" somehow.

I keep going back to this one. I got a great game going on it. The vertical haunted house feature of the game and the cube add variety. The haunted house reminds me conceptually of Banzai Run.

I'm pretty new to Zen though. Felt like a cheating partner downloading it, but in have to say I'm really enjoying it.

Just shows you what eye candy is possible on mobile if you have the right engine at the back end.