Beta 1.30 (7)

[PiN WiZ]

Well the button is there but there is talk in this thread about removing them, see post #81.

Ok...I see now.

 

[xAzatothx]

As you replied to a post directly adressed to me without stating you are someone else I don't know if I'm misunderstanding or if you are trying to make fun of me for being high up on leaderboard early on. I think the loss of me not being able to play beta is equally on my and farsights side as well as other users. As soon as beta is released I test it for all kinds of bugs I can think of. This is primarily for myself to have a bug free game but also for farsight and others to have a bug free game. I try to test the usual stuff and every other thing I can think of, that is high score list and all kinds of shots that don't balance game and whatever current table could have issues with. I think I've given relevant feedback on every beta to date.

I don't care much for high score chasing as I primarily end my games after three balls, still I'm around top 100 overall and in tournaments top 5 usually. Anyway.

I meant to address it to scumble to pretty much mirror what Carl is saying.

 

[switch3flip]

Well the button is there but there is talk in this thread about removing them, see post #81.

Makes even less sense disabling beta for non-season pass holders for last beta of season only. I would understand if they would like to encourage people to buy season passes. Also the ones who buy tables as single tables give more money to farsight in the end so I can't really understand the motives behind the desicion to disable beta for non season holders. They just end up with less testers and feedback. t's like shooting oneself in the foot. Maybe someone from farsight could explain the thought process behind this?

 

[switch3flip]

I meant to address it to scumble to pretty much mirror what Carl is saying.

Ok my bad. Would have been clearer if you wouldn't include my username in quotation but it's all good

 

[gonzo]

I can't see the point about that non-possible-to-buy-the-table-from-beta-GATE. Betas aren't about owning the table before everyone else or having a chance to make a top score. Those are about tracking bugs, and that's all it is. We are no professional beta testers and my guess is FS does most of this work by itself. If they allow us to beta test then I guess it's a brilliant move to let us give inputs as much as a way to enlarge the tester pool at no cost. I don't see the point in trying to understand FS reason to do this thing or that one? Let's assume they are smart people who know what they do, even if it`s not clear why to us smart people. I personally prefer the dev doing dev stuff and not a PR duty regarding a subject that's gonna be obsolete in few days. After all, the table is soon to be released, those who couldn't find bugs within the limited play time offered by the beta will have a month to report bugs for the intermediate builds to come along the month.

 

[PiN WiZ]

I can't see the point about that non-possible-to-buy-the-table-from-beta-GATE. Betas aren't about owning the table before everyone else or having a chance to make a top score. Those are about tracking bugs, and that's all it is. We are no professional beta testers and my guess is FS does most of this work by itself. If they allow us to beta test then I guess it's a brilliant move to let us give inputs as much as a way.to enlarge the tester pool at no cost. I don't see the point in trying to understand FS reason to do this thing or that one? Let's assume they are smart people who know what they do, even if it`s not clear why to us smart people. I personally prefer the dev doing dev stuff and not a PR duty. Regarding the fact that you can't buy betas from the app it's quite clear they must have a huge mismatch between the download counter and the testers inputs and they decided to get the "own before release" to.an halt. Who can blame them? If you produce something you want people to enjoy it when it's fully polished, after all there's your name on it.

The bottom line is, without full access to a table, beta testers can't test all the features of the table (including Pro features) to ensure there are no game breaking bugs...some of which manifest themselves after activating certain modes later on during a game. The majority of the concern over a limited beta has nothing to do with beta testers wanting to have unlimited access to a table before it's released to the public merely for their personal enjoyment...a beta is anything but.

 

[switch3flip]

I can't see the point about that non-possible-to-buy-the-table-from-beta-GATE. Betas aren't about owning the table before everyone else or having a chance to make a top score. Those are about tracking bugs, and that's all it is. We are no professional beta testers and my guess is FS does most of this work by itself. If they allow us to beta test then I guess it's a brilliant move to let us give inputs as much as a way to enlarge the tester pool at no cost. I don't see the point in trying to understand FS reason to do this thing or that one? Let's assume they are smart people who know what they do, even if it`s not clear why to us smart people. I personally prefer the dev doing dev stuff and not a PR duty regarding a subject that's gonna be obsolete in few days. After all, the table is soon to be released, those who couldn't find bugs within the limited play time offered by the beta will have a month to report bugs for the intermediate builds to come along the month.

I assure you beta testing here in android forum has had a big influence on farsight being able to keep a high pace at releasing smooth running tables. The beta usually is posted on fridays also so we spend weekends testing and giving feedback then this testing and feedback continues. Sometimes the beta is a next to finished product and sometives there's lots of bugs and issues discovered and we test very intensely, throughout the week with lots of communication between users and programmers. Most participating have gotten very experienced at it, not to mention some work in programming themselves so not only do we know what to look for but also provide possible solutions. Not to mention some know the current table well or might even own it themselves giving increadibly relevant and usefull feedback. There's a lot of work being done last week and sometimes many versions being tested.

However the level and tone of beta testing threads has gotten very unprofessional lately, on both users and farsights account. From farsight I experience more excuses and a defensive standpoint not needed in beta thread, no need to explain yourself, it's a beta and we just report related bugs, nothing personal.
But lately users and posts have been going way OT and there's been hijacking of thread to voice dissatisfaction completely unrelated to beta and way beyond appropriate.
I strongly suggest heavier moderating in beta threads and deleting OT posts and thread hijacking to keep it professional, effective and to the point.

 

[PiN WiZ]

I strongly suggest heavier moderating in beta threads and deleting OT posts and thread hijacking to keep it professional, effective and to the point.

I couldn't agree with you more and a permanent solution to this issue may be forthcoming.

 

[Baron Rubik]

Erm... Don't know if I'm missing something, but isn't this just an oversight due to change of staff, and didn't Farsight say at post #70 it would be reconsidered?

Seems to be getting blown out of proportion now.

 

[Carl Spiby]

An oversight would be "we will fix it in the next build" not that it would be reconsidered - that sounds like they made a conscious choice to not include it.

 

[Baron Rubik]

New staff - learning the job - didn't realise.
That's how I read it.

It's Farsights choice regardless.

 

[gonzo]

The bottom line is, without full access to a table, beta testers can't test all the features of the table (including Pro features) to ensure there are no game breaking bugs...some of which manifest themselves after activating certain modes later on during a game. The majority of the concern over a limited beta has nothing to do with beta testers wanting to have unlimited access to a table before it's released to the public merely for their personal enjoyment...a beta is anything but.

They don't actually need us forum people to play it fully so FS people can catch the bugs. it would be suicidal for any software company to launch beta test a week before the release and to let this critical yet late to come phase in the hands of forum guys only. Obviously they have a team to do just that and we are the cherry on the top, bringing other sets of fresh eyes. They actually don't need us to ensure there are game breaking bugs, which doesn't mean they don't let one slip through from time to time. If some might not be able to fully test because of the beta limitation, some are not in this case and it's not respectful for those people that might be chasing the pro mode bugs to assume that if some can't do it then the work ain't done.

Don't misread me I know a whole lot of good inputs have come from this forum and I surely respect the work thrown in by many here to really beta test and give back strong inputs but let's face it, this drama is trivial. Yet a little more trivial when you consider that in a few day anyone that couldn't beta test as much as they wanted will be able to do so, for a month length. The only problem these people face is: they can't do it right now.

Regarding the "unprofessionnal" comment made by switch3flip I might say this forum is unprofessionnal by nature, who in here is a real life pro beta tester with a test rig and a thorough test procedure? It's a people forum, you get people inputs and all the biases that come with them. Nice important inputs continue to come through though. Should FS set up a special forum for an elite of testers that might have a nicer environnement to report bugs? It might defeat the PR trick this forum is. I think the solution might be: people should behave in a more respectful way regarding FS, their work and their business choices. After all we're only consumer and not share holders.

 

[kinggo]

but you are forgetting that android is runing on 892659835698 different devices and FS can't test them all. Not to mention that even real deal have bugs so sometimes what seem as a bug from FS is actually from real machine.

 

[Scumble373]

Hey guys,

Sorry for all the confusion surrounding this beta and some of the choices I've made regarding how the beta program works. We're looking into a better way to do these betas on Android, so I apologize for any frustration you are having during this one. Also, thank you to everyone who provided us feedback during this time! With that being said, I really want to get another beta build out today, so check back later today for the link.

I hope you are all enjoying the table, I really can't wait to release it on Friday

 

[W1LDD ONE]

The Pinball Arcade: check out the twitch livestream today at 3pm PST for news, it's going to be a good one. TAF KS news today!