BlahCade #152: Does Censoring Pinball Kill the Buzz?

[jaredmorgs]

There's a point at which you just shake your head and say "nope, that's too far".


For some, it is when you change even the slightest part of an original item to meet today's censorship laws. For others, it ranges from "a bit is OK" to "hey, I really couldn't care less".


In this episode, we focus on an article in Ars Technica that documents the censorship of Zen Pinball FX3 Williams Pinball.


It will be interesting to hear what you think about the approach taken in the article, so do comment if you have a position on this.


We know one thing for sure about this last month: Zen do give due consideration to the community when it comes to what matters to us.


Check out https://blahcadepinball.com/152-censorship-buzz-kill for detailed notes and links for this episode.

 

[wolfson]

it doesn`t bother me which way they go , just keep those great tables coming Zen !!!

 

[Blkthorne]

Like Chris said, didn't mind too much about the little art changes in Fish Tales but when it is rumored they are thinking about changing/omitting a game mode on Champion Pub cause of gambling reference that is where I get very worried. That was one of the main reasons Roger Sharpe went before the NY officials to get pinball removed from the banned list cause they felt pinball was gambling. Tables like Jack*Bot, Riverboat Gambler, and Alien Poker will get totally destroyed and Zen shouldn't even bother bringing those out. The two Elvira tables which ooze with sexual innuendo will not be the same if you cover them up or remove voice overs/art as they are a big part of what makes Elvira....Elvira. I am hoping that Zen either rates each DLC separately or brings out their own app and uses FX3 as a launcher to the uncensored tables.

 

[Nomorestalker]

Yes. It annoys the hell out of me. But it's much less noticeable thanks to the ability to turn family mode off on steam. Before CENSORED was just jarring. I'll echo that gameplay should NOT be removed from tables (like gambling in champions pub or literally all of jackbot) I also don't want to play elvira with a tasteful sweater. I'm sure there's a way to keep everybody happy. The more you think about tables we want to see the more you start to think will need to be cut to make the e10 rating.

Does anybody know if tables with family mode off will have the original artwork? (Minus free fish tales) It seemed to have some confusion around it.

 

[shutyertrap]

I don't believe they would do two artwork passes. That just gets too complicated and there's room for error where the art shows up where it's not supposed to. Right now Zen is doing self censoring which kinda causes me to twitch. They can have a table like Doom, which is literally set in hell, you can shoot zombies with a sniper rifle in Walking Dead (plus, freaking zombies!!), they can have the screen tint red when Ripley 2 gets attacked in Alien: Isolation, but god forbid there's red ink on the sword in Medieval Madness which I honestly never even noticed until it was pointed out.

Speaking of Walking Dead, one of the grand head scratchers out there is how the TV show can show amazing amounts of carnage and gore, but are forbidden from dropping an f-bomb at any time. Meanwhile, on the same network, other shows are allowed it a few times per season but they feature no gore. I mean, if I'm letting my young kid watch gruesome horror in a show that features plenty of other salty language, am I really going to write a complaint letter because the mother of all swear words was uttered?

Back to pinball though...I have never come across one pinball table in my life that I'd not let my pre-teen child play in its regular state. This coming from a household that does not swear in front of him, does not let him watch The Walking Dead, has never shown him a movie with nudity in it, we aren't drinkers, and we don't smoke. I had him playing Scared Stiff 4 years ago and didn't think twice. He watched me play Medieval Madness 6 years ago when it came out in TPA and we laughed at every call out together. Too often self censorship is worse then when it's mandated, because it's done out of fear and no set rules.

 

[bavelb]

Personally, I'm fine with slight art retouches or slight DMD adjustments. As long as gameplay isn't touched.

 

[shutyertrap]

Personally, I'm fine with slight art retouches or slight DMD adjustments. As long as gameplay isn't touched.

That's where I ultimately come down to. Art touches, so long as they are subtle, whatever. DMD adjustments, only if done by WMS in the first place as an option. Gameplay is off limits.

I was fine with certain Festerings in TPA, but No Fear seemed really generic with all the audio they dropped (for licensing reasons). World Champion Soccer, I made peace with wanting to play it versus not having it at all. The amount of changes made to it though, even the color changes, just cheapened it though.

 

[Nomorestalker]

I guess i come out on the side of if they "fight" for it and get turned down by the esrb something is better than nothing. But from everything I've read they just self censored themselves for kicks.

 

[Russell Bergman]

Censoring a toilet flush in Junkyard is beyond ridiculous if you ask me.

 

[Citizen]

I bought pack 1 to support the product in the hopes that they'll listen to the calls to end the censorship and resubmit the content for reclassification or otherwise find some other workaround for unedited releases, but if they just keep releasing censored tables, especially with no way to do things as simple as disabling family mode for the console versions, I'll stop buying. I know some people don't mind (which is fine) and feel as though that because they don't mind, no one should, but I do mind. I'll be happy if they at least fight to get us as much as they can without jeopardizing their Disney license. Obviously I don't expect them to harm relations with a multi-billion dollar corporation for us, I'm not a lunatic. But resubmitting to the ESRB shouldn't be out of the question in my opinion. I also agree with the sentiment that allowing censorship to modify gameplay or strip down the entire core character of a machine is where it goes too far. If they start releasing things missing modes or completely rethemed, I'm out.

But yeah, if they get us as much as they can without pissing off Disney, don't touch gameplay, don't destroy a game's character, and stop using different standards for consoles, I'll be happy. If not, vote with wallet. A losing vote to be sure, but oh well.

 

[Gorgar]

This coming from a household that does not swear in front of him, does not let him watch The Walking Dead, has never shown him a movie with nudity in it, we aren't drinkers, and we don't smoke.

 

[jaredmorgs]

That was one of the main reasons Roger Sharpe went before the NY officials to get pinball removed from the banned list cause they felt pinball was gambling. Tables like Jack*Bot, Riverboat Gambler, and Alien Poker will get totally destroyed and Zen shouldn't even bother bringing those out. The two Elvira tables which ooze with sexual innuendo will not be the same if you cover them up or remove voice overs/art as they are a big part of what makes Elvira....Elvira. I am hoping that Zen either rates each DLC separately or brings out their own app and uses FX3 as a launcher to the uncensored tables.

To me, it feels like a more logical way to proceed if classification becomes problematic.

As an aside though Roger Sharp's actions were about the mechanics of pinball being luck/chanCe based, not skill-based. And it didn't take into account the fact that back in that era, games did not have heavily integrated voice callouts or video modes that blurred the lines of theme integration.

The era of pinball we're in now has those blurred lines, which is what is causing the problems with certification.

 

[Blkthorne]

To me, it feels like a more logical way to proceed if classification becomes problematic.

As an aside though Roger Sharp's actions were about the mechanics of pinball being luck/chanCe based, not skill-based. And it didn't take into account the fact that back in that era, games did not have heavily integrated voice callouts or video modes that blurred the lines of theme integration.

The era of pinball we're in now has those blurred lines, which is what is causing the problems with certification.

Actually wasn't the actions of Roger Sharpe suppose to be that pinball was about skill? "Roger is one of the most idolized people in the pinball community. He is most famous for his work legitimizing pinball by demonstrating that it is a game of skill." this was on the wiki page for Roger Sharpe. I remember an interview with him that he would call out his shots and then do them on the Bank Shot table for the NY officials to show his skill.

https://gizmodo.com/how-one-perfect-shot-saved-pinball-from-being-illegal-1154267979

 

[jaredmorgs]

Actually wasn't the actions of Roger Sharpe suppose to be that pinball was about skill? "Roger is one of the most idolized people in the pinball community. He is most famous for his work legitimizing pinball by demonstrating that it is a game of skill." this was on the wiki page for Roger Sharpe. I remember an interview with him that he would call out his shots and then do them on the Bank Shot table for the NY officials to show his skill.

https://gizmodo.com/how-one-perfect-shot-saved-pinball-from-being-illegal-1154267979

My post was poorly structured (was at work).

The legislators were against Sharpe, saying that pinball was about luck or chance (tainted by the Bingo era of pinball) and were gambling devices.

Sharpe was indeed there to prove that the premise of pinball was that it was a game of skill and not a dedicated gambling device.

 

[Blkthorne]

My post was poorly structured (was at work).

The legislators were against Sharpe, saying that pinball was about luck or chance (tainted by the Bingo era of pinball) and were gambling devices.

Sharpe was indeed there to prove that the premise of pinball was that it was a game of skill and not a dedicated gambling device.

Heh, that's ok, I do feel that what you and Chris said about Zen being scared with their censoring and maybe not talking to the ERSB or Disney about what they would allow is true.

 

[bmsuseluda]

i don't know what it costs but i think a recheck from esrb is necessary. did someone know why they didn't do it in the first place? i mean altering a table costs money they could use to recheck.

 

[shutyertrap]

They were just using the ESRB rating they already had for all their other Zen tables. Mel said in that interview that the studio had run afoul of the ratings board one other time, so the concern is real. I think what they don't want to do is resubmit each and every time. Again though, he stated that the ESRB is not their only concern, they need to make sure all the licencors they deal with are comfortable being listed with all the material in the game. If one specifically has an anti tobacco or alcohol policy, then that sort of thing will get cut regardless of if the ESRB says it fits within the E10+ rating. Same would go for gambling, suggestive imagery or language, etc.

 

[Striker]

Does Zen really think their target demographic for pinball is 10-16 year old kids? I would bet the overwhelming majority of sales - including Zen's original content - are consumers over 17. So why obsess with trying to hit E10+ for an ESRB rating?

 

[shutyertrap]

Does Zen really think their target demographic for pinball is 10-16 year old kids? I would bet the overwhelming majority of sales - including Zen's original content - are consumers over 17. So why obsess with trying to hit E10+ for an ESRB rating?

I keep saying it, it’s not just about the ESRB, but about Zen’s other licensing partners, as Mel hinted at in our podcast. Does make you wonder, is that why the South Park license didn’t get renewed? Not because of content in the table, but because the brand didn’t jive with others?

 

[CycOd3liC]

Doesn't bother me at all. I'm not skilled enough to sit and watch the animations when i'm playing.