Bobby King Interview 2 (PS3)

[Byte]

Just got a chance to hear the Bobby King interview, round 2. The PS3 stuff starts at 23:41 so if you haven't yet, I suggest you go here http://digitalpinballfans.com/showthread.php/4124-Round-2-TPAF-Audio-Interview-With-Bobby-King and slide forward.

The news is not good.

For any and all DLC content, which is anything other than the 4 launch tables, everything except code ("the resource") is mostly fixed and untouchable, per Sony's rules.

There is talk about fixing this system in the PS4 version, which would of course be a very wise course of action, but for the PS3 the only option is to create a "2.0" version of TPA. What really hit me like a slap in the face is that Bobby was wondering if people wanted to download a whole new core game, or "stick with what we've got".

To me it's of course a no-brainer... I'd be happy to download a full GIG if that is what it takes to fix e.g. Black Knight and all the other issues, and at the same time make these update-able. On the other hand, there might be TPA owners with low-speed connections and tight download caps.

So I'm going to post a poll to see if there's any support for a TPA v3.0 (since we're already on v2.0x).

 

[grashopper]

I think 2.0 was more like a "sequel" to the game. Not really the version number.
Anyway, I think it's insane that we don't already have a new version if that's what it takes to fix the mess that has been becoming increasingly more severe. If you can't fix anything they should have looked at the product before shipping it.

 

[smbhax]

Small correction: Table packs 1 and 2 (MM and Bride, CV and FH) are also part of the core game--they must have been included in the initial download, because if you check your Downloads list in the PSN store, you'll see that their download size is only 100KB, ie they're just unlock keys. So those tables can be updated in the existing system.

Incidentally, "slap in the face" tells me you haven't thought this out entirely clearly. I know you're frustrated with their inability to update the tables as they are--their failure to have thought this through properly from the beginning--and so am I, but no game developer actually wants to slap you in the face, even figuratively. If Bobby sounds a little uncertain about something, that's because he doesn't have all the information; he can't read our minds, and I'm sure we don't want him spending all his time trying to read all the forum posts. Actually what was more worrisome to me when it comes to his uncertainty in the PS update arena was when he finished talking about the PS3 update problem with "maybe for PS4 we'll change that if we can" (emphasis mine). It seems to me quite unlikely that there's no way, or will be no way, to do this kind of update properly. Well, I'm sure he'll figure it out before launch...and it's up to us to make the critical nature of the issue clear to him, but carrying around this ridiculous idea of an us-vs-them mentality does not help. They want our money, which means they want to make us as happy as they can given the resources they have available.

Also, obviously all of us here are hardcore enough to be more than willing to download whatever would be needed to get all the table fixes they've made, so a poll is kind of redundant; if I was a developer facing this situation though, I'd have to think long and hard about the extra work involved in putting together a revamped version of the game when that effort won't pay for itself directly, and the potential for confusing and possibly losing some of the non-hardcore playerbase. And it's worth mentioning that Zen's transition was not smooth, they a significant problem at launch getting Zen 2 to "import" tables people had purchased for Zen 1. So while I would love a new version, it'll take more than wishing for it to make it possible.

All that being said, I'll vote in the poll because if it does help get some ideas ticking at FarSight, so much the better. And after all, as you've done well to notice and make the most of, it was Bobby's suggestion in the first place, whether or not he meant it seriously. : D

~~~~~~~~~~~

(I was reminded that the first two packs were unlocks because when I found this thread I was waiting for the game to download and install its 277 or whatever MB patch from version 1, because I'd deleted the game and redownloaded and reinstalled everything just on the off chance they'd snuck some updated versions of the DLC tables into the store without shaming Sony by admitting it. ... Doesn't look like like they have. : P)

~~~~~~~~~

PPS: Although given that those first two packs are unlocks, and since they have a title update to go along with each new table pack or two anyway, it does make me wonder if they really couldn't figure out a way, in the existing game, to have future game title updates have the new tables in them, and then the DLC is, once again, just unlock keys. After all, Bobby says in the interview

The main problem is that our DLC is built into separate packages, so it's not part of the patch, so when you do that--and that's the way we started doing it--Sony frowns upon us changing up where the table resources are--they don't want us to add them to the patch--so basically our hands are kind of tied in not being able to update the DLC packages.

so does that mean they *could* put the table resources for any *new* table packs into the patch, and have the DLC for the new packs just be unlock keys like before? Hm well at any rate I'll have to try to get that in as a question for the next interview if no answer comes along before then.

 

[grashopper]

Think those first packs had demo play too if you hadn't bought them.

Anyway ... about the face smack. In this situation FS has repeatedly screwed over PS3 owners. They may not want to alienate the fanbase but with the lack of care and pushing the product out the door without looking at the tables (Genie, Black Knight, ect) they are. When you know you can't fix something they could at least look them over to fix the terrible visual problems before you rush them out the door to make a buck. Every pack they show a great looking trailer and screens and then deliver something that looks nothing like them (SS and BS were pretty good).
What they have done so far is inexcusable, I gave them a bit of a free pass thinking maybe the NEXT update would fix some of the issues like mobile did once in a while ... But when it comes down to it, they released a rushed, in some cases badly broken product with no intention of ever fixing it.
I think they should be doing everything in their power to fix this as soon as possible because you get to a point where the people buying your game have had enough of your crap and become bitter and angry and wont touch anything you make. They need to say this is how we ARE going to fix it, and then get it done no matter what it takes. Every pack they release is one step closer to having no fans left.

 

[Byte]

I see I caused some confusion as to what I meant with the 'slap in the face' ; apologies for that. What I thought was said that perhaps PS3 owners might think it too much of a burden to download several hundred MBs again, since that would be required, and the slap -- at the time -- was that for me, I would give him a man-hug for even opening up the possibility of doing so. Of course I was going to get it again, and if all Goals need to be re-done so be it.

The reason for the poll is indeed just to find out if there would be any issues among the forum-members.

Edit: I also understand completely that this is a result of Sony's policies, and not unwillingness from FS. We are all in the same boat. But if we have 10 or 20 more table packs to go, it's worth discussing how to possibly proceed, with Sony's framework as a given.

 

[Palmer Eldritch]

I realize only 8 people have voted but just wow @ the results.

 

[Gord Lacey]

I guess that's why so many DLC updates come with a patched game, and a small authorization file. The game gets patched as a regular update, then you download the 100kb file to authorize the DLC.

 

[Firefox2000]

I dont admit to knowing just what the tech issues are in all this but surely there must be away to get around them, and does this mean the PS3 is now going to be a substandard version of the games and tables compared to say the new steam versions to come and will be left behind, am i reading this wrong.

My apoligies if i am, i am a massive fan of this game on the PS3, i have all but two tables, and i hope this is not the end of the PS3 versions.

I am quite willing to drop cash on any update or new base version that allows us to update and fix our present tables, here take my cash, just keep the tables and support coming.

 

[Tann]

For any and all DLC content, which is anything other than the 4 launch tables, everything except code ("the resource") is mostly fixed and untouchable, per Sony's rules.

For me, the most important fix so far is this goddamned lag in 1080i/p resolution. It have been acknowleged by Farsight, and I really hope that they're doing something about that. It's a shame that you have to downscale to 720p (and alter graphics) to have a playable game.
I downloaded only the three first packs (MM/BoP, CV/FH, MB/Gorgar), due to bad feedbacks on how look the following tables (washed-out Taxi for example).

But more than graphics issues (untouchable anyway), I would rather prefer that they take care to fix gamebreaking bugs (Funhouse is full of it).

Small correction: Table packs 1 and 2 (MM and Bride, CV and FH) are also part of the core game--they must have been included in the initial download, because if you check your Downloads list in the PSN store, you'll see that their download size is only 100KB, ie they're just unlock keys. So those tables can be updated in the existing system.

I've download Pack #1 and 3# on the April 13th, and Pack #2 yesterday: it wasn't just unlocks.
Respectively, on my PSN DL list, sizes are:
Pack#1 and #3: about 70MB
Pack#2: about 40MB

Without the DLC, the core game was about 250MB (by memory), and now it's about 450MB (triangle and infos in the XMB)

Quid?

 

[smbhax]

That's interesting, I think the core game I downloaded was 300-something MB--that was the US version. You've got the European version?

 

[Tann]

That's interesting, I think the core game I downloaded was 300-something MB--that was the US version. You've got the European version?

Yep, it's the European version. It certainly explains the difference.

 

[smbhax]

I dont admit to knowing just what the tech issues are in all this but surely there must be away to get around them, and does this mean the PS3 is now going to be a substandard version of the games and tables compared to say the new steam versions to come and will be left behind

Not left behind exactly, we'll still be getting tables, but yeah we don't get table fixes like other platforms do. It's funny because another thing that was said...somewhere? I think?...was that we can't be like getting updated versions of the DLC by deleting our install and redownloading everything because that would make Sony look silly and confuse their customers, but that has to be weighed against people in the know knowing that the PS3 version is the version with the bugs that can't be fixed--that doesn't really make Sony look so good, either.

Another wrinkle for us is that as time goes by this means our old and un-tweaked tables and shared leaderboard scores are having to try to keep pace with those other platforms that get fixes and tweaks, gar. Another reason why a platform-specific leaderboard--or at least leaderboard filtering option--would be nice.

 

[smbhax]

Yep, it's the European version. It certainly explains the difference.

It does, and I wonder if it also means they don't want to update those pack 1 and pack 2 tables. Or have they already made updates/fixes to them of some kind in the past? (I kept hoping for a while they'd do a beauty pass on the dark and dingy lighting in Medieval Madness--silly I know but it bothers me--but obviously that hasn't happened.)

 

[Tann]

Or have they already made updates/fixes to them of some kind in the past? (I kept hoping for a while they'd do a beauty pass on the dark and dingy lighting in Medieval Madness--silly I know but it bothers me--but obviously that hasn't happened.)

I couldn't say, but for example, the space between flippers on MM have been decreased (it's obvious when you watch first videos). This fix comes with a patch (not possible according to the interview) or have they modified the DLC file?

It's not clear at all.^^

 

[Palmer Eldritch]

free the three!

 

[grashopper]

Curious who voted no... Why!?

 

[ER777]

I would certainly welcome a new download if it fixed the graphical issues.

That being said, Sony's rule about not updating DLC is antiquated and needs to be rethought in the same way they are rethinking charging patch fees. This is one more thing that puts their consoles at a disadvantage versus mobile platforms. Putting developers in a position where they need to go through this whole re-release process for the entire game just to fix some issues in certain locked DLC libraries is ridiculous.

 

[warh0g]

This is not good news at all. I have been hoping for updates on several tables. This means that we are stuck with the bad bumpers in AFM for instance?
I would gladly download any size update to correct this. I hope that the PC version won't be held back by x360 issues. If the PS3 won't receive any updates I will switch to PC asap.

 

[ROTTEN]

People actually voted no on this?? ..... wtf?

 

[grashopper]

People actually voted no on this?? ..... wtf?

FarSight?