Comparing PC beta to PS3 regarding lighting

[shutyertrap]

I plugged my PS3 into my computer monitor so I could do some apples to apples comparisons. Unfortunately I can't take screenshots of my PS3 to highlight the differences, and it's been requested not to post screens of beta tables, so visually this won't be a terribly interesting thread!

Still, let's discuss some things so I might be clearer on what I'm seeing. The first and most obvious thing I notice is that the PC has a much hotter glow to it, glow being the optimal word here. It's almost like there's been a diffusion filter put over the whole image. Light seems to bleed out all around the inserts and onto the table surface, which just isn't natural. On the PS3, the light coming out of inserts is contained and more defined.

An easy example is to look at the coin doors. In the beta, they're positively on fire, like they'd melt your quarter upon entry. This hotness also makes reading a lit insert near impossible in certain situations. On NGG there is a yellow insert on the left side just above the slingshot that should say 'trap ready'. I'm not saying it's easy to read on the PS3, because it totally isn't, but on the beta it's downright impossible because it's just a yellow blob.

So is this just an example of the PS3's lighting system over the Xbox build, which I am presuming is what we are seeing in the beta? Anybody else bothered by this look? Because I'm rather distracted by it, especially on a few select tables (AFM, Pin*Bot, CC).

 

[rob3d]

I think that glow is only visible when post processing is on. My computer can't handle the post so I've never seen the glow you mention.

 

[Sean DonCarlos]

Didn't the 360 at one point get a lighting fix because glowing inserts were impossible to read due to excessive HDR bloom? I wonder if that's what you're seeing here.

 

[shutyertrap]

It very well may be Sean. I hope this build is merely a place holder for final look and instead is all about working out the kinks. Some tables are fine, but I felt the need to bring it up because you know, squeaky wheel and all that!

 

[PiN WiZ]

FarSight is on the right track with the post-processing on PC IMO. I just think for the meantime, they need to lower the intensity of the post-processing a few notches until they can perfect the look of the lighting they're aiming for.

 

[SilverBalls]

FarSight is on the right track with the post-processing on PC IMO. I just think for the meantime, they need to lower the intensity of the post-processing a few notches until they can perfect the look of the lighting they're aiming for.

Maybe make the intensity user definable per table - if technically possible?

 

[Jeff Strong]

Maybe make the intensity user definable per table - if technically possible?

That would be incredible.

 

[Twoflower]

I'd love user-definable. I like the superglow effect, personally -- it's the retro-feel of being in a dark arcade when everything SEEMS to glow more than it probably actually is. But I can see that messing with the ability to score well, so for sitting down for a serious session, being able to tone it down could help.

 

[kimkom]

FarSight is on the right track with the post-processing on PC IMO. I just think for the meantime, they need to lower the intensity of the post-processing a few notches until they can perfect the look of the lighting they're aiming for.

I agree. Some parts of Funhouse and CV look good but some of the post-processing on other tables looks a bit heavy handed.

PS. Just back from a trip, including a visit to the UK Pinball Party, so I'm a bit behind on the PC Beta. Like it so far.

 

[Shaneus]

I'm not a fan of the level of HDR that's being applied, but I'm finding that the base they're working from has colours that are far too intense for my liking. I've implemented another (external) post-processing filter which I think makes the tables feel more realistic and less "cartoony":
STTNG vanilla: http://abload.de/img/pinballarcade.exe_201x5ls9.jpg
STTNG filtered: http://abload.de/img/pinballarcade.exe_201mhbeo.jpg
MM vanilla: http://abload.de/img/pinballarcade.exe_201x2adw.jpg
MM filtered: http://abload.de/img/pinballarcade.exe_201yeze6.jpg
Firepower vanilla: http://abload.de/img/pinballarcade.exe_2018jz60.jpg
Firepower filtered: http://abload.de/img/pinballarcade.exe_2010dzjm.jpg
CftBL vanilla: http://abload.de/img/pinballarcade.exe_201h8zrx.jpg
CftBL filtered: http://abload.de/img/pinballarcade.exe_2011syho.jpg
(note: this is with in-game HDR disabled, so it's only the game on it's own with my tweaked filter applied)

Apologies for the quality, I resized them via a batch program and it seemed to use some pretty crappy JPEG compression settings. They still convey the differences well enough, I think. FYI the program I used is called "SweetFX"

 

[Sean DonCarlos]

I'm the complete opposite...I'm finding the filtered images too faded. The real tables are quite vivid...they have to be so that you can still see the colors in dim surroundings.

 

[Shaneus]

Different strokes, I guess! But I think you're right though, looking through IPDB and it looks like my memory has failed me for the most part... the tables are far more vivid than the ones I've seen in person (out of those I picked, that's MM, FP and TNG). But there's still something with the TPA ones that makes them feel off, maybe it's just the colour temperature.

FWIW I tend to do the same with driving games on PC as well, just tinker with the colours so they complement and don't compete with each other. Less of a visual assault

 

[shutyertrap]

Different strokes, I guess! But I think you're right though, looking through IPDB and it looks like my memory has failed me for the most part... the tables are far more vivid than the ones I've seen in person (out of those I picked, that's MM, FP and TNG). But there's still something with the TPA ones that makes them feel off, maybe it's just the colour temperature.

FWIW I tend to do the same with driving games on PC as well, just tinker with the colours so they complement and don't compete with each other. Less of a visual assault

The colors as seen on the iPhone, those are what the tables actually look like in broad daylight. The colors seen on PS3, well those are some interpretation of what they might look like in a slightly darkened room. The colors seen on PC, well it's the PS3 but cranked another 5 notches.

It's easy for me to see what's wrong. There are parts of the table that look lit, despite there being no light source to light it in that way. Frequently I see it on the flippers. There appears to be a light source coming from below where they are, but I've never seen on any table bulbs lower than the GI in the inlane. Of the pics you posted, ST:TNG has it going a little, as the bottom of the flipper should not have hi-lights. CC has a lot of unmotivated light sources, but look at Flight 2000 to see it really bad. The flippers are glowing, yet there's not even any GI lighting near 'em.

I personally think MM on the PS3 along with FH are the best examples of good lighting, but truthfully, until we get what is proposed for the PS4, you're gonna see this hit and miss style. I don't care for the glow that's being applied to these tables in the beta, especially when there's no shadow. To me it's as bad as when you see a movie that throws an explosion effect on top of a building or car that they didn't actually blow up. It gets the point across, but looks cheesy.

 

[Jeff Strong]

Genie looks a million times better than the PS3 version. It no longer burns my retinas.

 

[shutyertrap]

Genie looks a million times better than the PS3 version. It no longer burns my retinas.

Absolutely, and Taxi actually has a proper taxi yellow about it. Then you look at the red flashers on Whirlwind, and gahhh! May as well put text in 'em that says 'BAM!' and 'OOF', as they look like overlays ala Batman.

 

[kimkom]

The colors as seen on the iPhone, those are what the tables actually look like in broad daylight. The colors seen on PS3, well those are some interpretation of what they might look like in a slightly darkened room. The colors seen on PC, well it's the PS3 but cranked another 5 notches.

It's easy for me to see what's wrong. There are parts of the table that look lit, despite there being no light source to light it in that way. Frequently I see it on the flippers. There appears to be a light source coming from below where they are, but I've never seen on any table bulbs lower than the GI in the inlane. Of the pics you posted, ST:TNG has it going a little, as the bottom of the flipper should not have hi-lights. CC has a lot of unmotivated light sources, but look at Flight 2000 to see it really bad. The flippers are glowing, yet there's not even any GI lighting near 'em.

I personally think MM on the PS3 along with FH are the best examples of good lighting, but truthfully, until we get what is proposed for the PS4, you're gonna see this hit and miss style. I don't care for the glow that's being applied to these tables in the beta, especially when there's no shadow. To me it's as bad as when you see a movie that throws an explosion effect on top of a building or car that they didn't actually blow up. It gets the point across, but looks cheesy.

Shut, I agree with you. Especially with regard to the Flight 2000 flippers (I recently posted somewhere else about this).

I think there has been a steady shift towards a more cartoony look to the tables. Possibly without FarSight even realizing.

I'm not sure the quality of the early/base tables has been anywhere near matched by the quality of the DLC. Anybody care to comment?

 

[kimkom]

Absolutely, and Taxi actually has a proper taxi yellow about it. Then you look at the red flashers on Whirlwind, and gahhh! May as well put text in 'em that says 'BAM!' and 'OOF', as they look like overlays ala Batman.

This is the very thing that puts me off playing this table in the beta.

 

[shutyertrap]

This is the very thing that puts me off playing this table in the beta.

It's obnoxious, right? And there is zero light fade, it's either on or off, which makes it jarring. Fingers crossed the PS3 version pulls this particular table off better, as it is my fave.

 

[Jeff Strong]

SYT is spot on in this thread.

 

[Sumez]

I think the HDR filter looks great! Hoping to see this in the WiiU version.