Controversial opinion time: Williams PHoF in some aspects is still better than TPA

[Shaneus]

For a bit of a laugh (because I keep seeing things about it being poked fun of here in the forum occasionally) I decided to fire up Williams Pinball Classics (aka Williams Pinball Hall of Fame) on my 360. I was surprised whilst I was playing it to find a few things:
* Many of the tables look better than their current counterparts on PC. For example: The colours on Taxi have a lot more "pop" and are far more realistic (IMO) and even than in TPA on PC. No signs of pink ramps, colours are slightly muted but only just enough to make it look less cartoony, inserts don't look overblown (where they tend to on PC, even with post-proc off) and it just feels more pleasing to the eye overall.
* There are some graphics effects which I don't recall seeing done on the PC version. For example, I noticed the flippers casting an accurate-looking shadow on the MM table. I haven't fired up TPA on PC to compare, but I don't recall seeing it (or if I did, it didn't look as good).
* Glass reflection is subtle but well done. I recall chatting to Norman at Texas Pinball Festival about glass reflection and FS' decision for the game to essentially behave (in sound and graphics) like it's playing with the glass off, and that when they tried to have it on people complained they couldn't see anything. Not sure about how it was implemented in testing for TPA, but on WPHoF it looks great. Adds dimension to the table without being at all distracting.
* Flipper physics are at least in some ways better. They might move slower than in TPA, but I was accidentally and deliberately able to pull off something close to a live catch on more than one occasion. I couldn't do one perfectly, but I did notice more than once that if I activated the flipper at the right time (so the apex of the flipper was timed to hit the ball close to perfectly), the ball had significantly less reflective bounce than if I just held the flipper up. Which struck me as damn weird.

I'd love for people to fire it back up again and see what they think, tell me if I'm seeing things or not. But yeah, I was genuinely blown away with how good some of the tables looked and a lot of the other touches that didn't seem to carry over into TPA.

 

[superballs]

One thing that bugs me graphically in TPA is the fact that the ball reflection is visible behind the flippers with a low camera angle.

 

[Biff]

I like the colors of Taxi and the glass reflections on all tables.
But in comparison to TPA, the other tables look worse. Gofers is the worst.
Surprisingly Space Shuttle look pretty good, almost as good as the TPA version.

What else, I like the music tracks of PHOF ... I think FS once said, they would have to license the music again to put it in TPA ...

 

[brakel]

The physics in WPHoF for the PS3 are just too floaty for me. I just can't get over that whenever I play it again. But some parts of the game were more polished. The table selection certainly was whether you liked the virtual arcade or not. Ironic that the current iteration of the game is The Pinball Arcade yet its missing the arcade. Support for up to four controllers is another sore spot. Still don't understand why TPA can't support multiple controllers. But that's the fun in putting in the old WPHoF disc from time to time.

 

[Bowflex]

The one better thing is that it has Sorcerer. Beyond that, I think the physics are improved. I think Funhouse and Whirlwind are way more challenging on TPA (and they should be as they were too easy on PHOF compared to real life), partially due to art issues with the ramp transparency but changing ball colors fixes that for the most part.

 

[budtki@verizon.net]

For a bit of a laugh (because I keep seeing things about it being poked fun of here in the forum occasionally) I decided to fire up Williams Pinball Classics (aka Williams Pinball Hall of Fame) on my 360. I was surprised whilst I was playing it to find a few things:
* Many of the tables look better than their current counterparts on PC. For example: The colours on Taxi have a lot more "pop" and are far more realistic (IMO) and even than in TPA on PC. No signs of pink ramps, colours are slightly muted but only just enough to make it look less cartoony, inserts don't look overblown (where they tend to on PC, even with post-proc off) and it just feels more pleasing to the eye overall.
* There are some graphics effects which I don't recall seeing done on the PC version. For example, I noticed the flippers casting an accurate-looking shadow on the MM table. I haven't fired up TPA on PC to compare, but I don't recall seeing it (or if I did, it didn't look as good).
* Glass reflection is subtle but well done. I recall chatting to Norman at Texas Pinball Festival about glass reflection and FS' decision for the game to essentially behave (in sound and graphics) like it's playing with the glass off, and that when they tried to have it on people complained they couldn't see anything. Not sure about how it was implemented in testing for TPA, but on WPHoF it looks great. Adds dimension to the table without being at all distracting.
* Flipper physics are at least in some ways better. They might move slower than in TPA, but I was accidentally and deliberately able to pull off something close to a live catch on more than one occasion. I couldn't do one perfectly, but I did notice more than once that if I activated the flipper at the right time (so the apex of the flipper was timed to hit the ball close to perfectly), the ball had significantly less reflective bounce than if I just held the flipper up. Which struck me as damn weird.

I'd love for people to fire it back up again and see what they think, tell me if I'm seeing things or not. But yeah, I was genuinely blown away with how good some of the tables looked and a lot of the other touches that didn't seem to carry over into TPA.

i've been saying this for a while, i thought everything from the graphics to the colors were truly outstanding on WHOFP, even the available views are better, and the scale of the machines are spot on, but the 2 things i truly miss from WHOFP is 1) on machines with the upper loop+upper flipper.. like funhouse, whirlwind and gophers, the camera angle can't possibly be any better, WPOFP allows you to attack the upper loops, which in turn is where the big scores come from and thus gives the player more enjoyment....whereas on TPA these loops become more of a luck shot...

 

[PinballLizard (Mark Wyda)]

I agree about that, some tables looked better than console/PC but on ps4 lighting that's rectified and will be with Dx 11 on PC.

Glass reflections I usually turned off but having the option is cool I guess for those who like that look.

There's a lot that's been improved though. A ton. Just look at Rudy's face, or hell all of Medieval Madness looks and plays pretty poorly in HOF. The physics have gotten way better too. HOF is so damn slow, it's amazing that this was once considered the epitome of pinball physics. We've come a long way since what 2008? It's even noticeable really when you fire up Monster Bash or Theatre of Magic there's a difference in physics compared to the 2013/2014 releases for sure. And lastly simply removing that awful, corny commentator that read the rulesheets to you was the best improvement they ever made lol.

You know one thing I have to say though. As corny and like "ps2 era" as that whole virtual arcade looked, it was very cool 'walking around' and going to different floors and seeing the pins there. Complete with the ambient arcade sounds, that aspect was actually really cool and made you feel like you were in a real arcade.

 

[PinballLizard (Mark Wyda)]

So I guess honestly a part of me would want to see that return, the virtual arcade.

Then there's another part of me that realizes with 50+ pins that's going to be a real chore when like the pin you want is in some dark corner on the fifth floor lol. Or worse you forget what's where. Then again it might be worth it, arcades rock so much

 

[Captain B. Zarre]

So I guess honestly a part of me would want to see that return, the virtual arcade.

Then there's another part of me that realizes with 50+ pins that's going to be a real chore when like the pin you want is in some dark corner on the fifth floor lol. Or worse you forget what's where. Then again it might be worth it, arcades rock so much

Maybe include the "virtual arcade" option as an alternate way to select tables

 

[PinballLizard (Mark Wyda)]

Maybe include the "virtual arcade" option as an alternate way to select tables

There's just something about seeing a pinball in it's natural habitat, ya know?

If they were to bring it back, id like to see a "make your own arcade " feature. I could out the machines I like on the main floors, stuff I don't in the basement. Decorate the walls, set up the machines with custom or tournament settings, and have people visit. Something similar was attempted in this old 360 game, Game Room I believe it was called. Sadly that game failed , but it was a fun concept.

 

[Fungi]

I can understand not using the arcade setting on mobiles, but on consoles and PCs, I say offer it as an option. I also miss the arcade ambiance in the background. I know about the Arcade Ambiance sound files on the net, but I just want it built in.

P.S. The PHOF cameras on NGG were atrocious. Unless you like the the experience of standing on a ladder while playing, then sure, it's awesome.

 

[George Klepacz]

I used to miss the Williams challenge but that is finally implemented which is nice. I loved the local tournament setup where you could pick the number of players and number of tables and the game would do the rest. The arcade ambiance was awesome and I like the arcade setting as well. I liked how the table goals forced me to learn the rules of the tables, even the ones I initially didn't like. The playing tips on loading screens were a nice touch. I liked Sorcerer so much that I bought one in real life last year.

 

[Shaneus]

For a great look at how well a virtual arcade could be implemented, have a look at the virtual garage feature used in Project Gotham Racing 3. You can place all your cars in pre-determined spots around a large house (garage, outside in the driveway etc.) and there are framed photos on the wall from photo mode. Replace the cars with pins, make it all inside and rather than photos, have a framed flyer next to each machine. Easy

Only if they give us a basement though. Need room for all those Gottlieb and Stern machines

 

[Pinballwiz45b]

I enjoyed the Williams Collection, but TPA's physics feel more realistic by a landslide. TWC is just too floaty for me now.

 

[DokkenRokken]

The one better thing is that it has Sorcerer. Beyond that, I think the physics are improved. I think Funhouse and Whirlwind are way more challenging on TPA (and they should be as they were too easy on PHOF compared to real life), partially due to art issues with the ramp transparency but changing ball colors fixes that for the most part.

+1

I really don't get how the OP can think that the former is better?

 

[Baron Rubik]

+1
I really don't get how the OP can think that the former is better?

+ another, but...
Black Knight was infinitely better in WPHOF, apart from the constantly panning camera.
I played this on Saturday and felt a bit motion sick afterwards.
Why on earth did it pan sideways as well as vertically.

 

[Shaneus]

+1

I really don't get how the OP can think that the former is better?

Did you read the OP or just the thread title?