DX11 slow performance?

[EldarOfSuburbia]

The 7950 was a top-end card in its day. It's slipped somewhat - it is 3 years old after all - but it can still hold a candle to newer cards. It's roughly equivalent to the GTX960, but I'd say the 960 is going to have far better power consumption and noise factors than the 7950.

 

[Biff]

The 7950 was a top-end card in its day. It's slipped somewhat - it is 3 years old after all - but it can still hold a candle to newer cards. It's roughly equivalent to the GTX960, but I'd say the 960 is going to have far better power consumption and noise factors than the 7950.

The Radeon HD 7950 is 3 years old and not really available anymore.
The R9 280 has similiar specs like the old 7950 and costs as much as the cheap version of the GTX 960.
However the R9 280 has 3 GB Ram and an 384 Bit interface, the GTX 960 has 2 GB RAM and an 128 Bit interface.

click

 

[Bruno]

There are many factors in the performance on one table vs another. More modern table doesn't necessarily mean more performance needed.

The size and number of the point lights affects performance. Generally, the more lights the slower it runs. However a large number of really small lights will use less performance than a small number of really large lights.

Things like transparency (like the huge glass plate on Black Hole) affect performance. Anytime you render to the same pixel multiple times it affects performance. This happens a lot in tables with a lot of transparent parts. Like TOTAN with its clear ramps.

CV has a really large tube light that's simulated by using dozens of point lights. In computer graphics there is no bent neon tube light type, so we fake it with a whole bunch of lights. Those point lights are also very large to they light up the area properly. Large number of lights + large sized lights = slow performance on old or low end graphics cards.

Then can you explain me why I get a steady 60 fps rate on CV and Black Hole when using a static camera 3? If I use static camera 4, or if the game zoom on a particular event, fps rate drop from 60 to 30. On TOAN, I only get fps drop when the camera zoom on the plunger and when I use static camera 4.

I guess recommended settings should now include a ''250$ video card''! PA is now more demanding on GPU than CS GO with everything maxed out!!! -250$ into my bank account.

 

[Bruno]

and you get fps drops if you buy an equivalent Nvidia card.

Wrong. I know some people who use older cheap-ass nvidia video cards, and they don't get weird fps drops.

 

[Biff]

Wrong. I know some people who use older cheap-ass nvidia video cards, and they don't get weird fps drops.

Then go ahead and tell us which "cheap-ass" nvidia cards they are using.
Some users on this forum want to buy a cheap card for TPA DX11.

 

[Bruno]

DX11 is in BETA, this is EXACTLY what a beta is for, to find and report issues.

As you can see above, Farsight already concluded that AMD users reporting weird FPS drop issues have a weak video card, so that issue is not an issue anymore, it's just us having a bad video card. It's not on Farsight's end. We have to buy a low-mid range nvidia gpu or a top of the line AMD gpu to play this game, which is now more demanding than CS GO and BF4 on gpu for AMD users. But, hey, this is pinball.

 

[rehtroboi40]

HP ENVY 700-406?

The AMD A10-7700K is a quad (4) core CPU with an integraded R7 Graphics Unit.
It is designed to act as a CPU and GPU on a single chip.

On-board graphic usually refers to a graphics unit which is fixed to the mainboard.

If you google for benchmark results, you will notice that the A10-7700K (CPU&GPU) is not very powerful.

Again, 12 GB RAM have no effect when you play TPA.

"Not very powerful"-that settles that. Saving my hard=earned dollars.......

Got the info direct from my system properties.

 

[Bruno]

Then go ahead and tell us which "cheap-ass" nvidia cards they are using.
Some users on this forum want to buy a cheap card for TPA DX11.

For instance, pinballwiz45b used to play this game with a gtx 465, which is about as strong as a HD 7770, and he could run this game flawlessly. Now that he switched to HD 7950, he did notice some fps drop on circus voltaire, teeheheh.

 

[Pinballwiz45b]

For instance, pinballwiz45b used to play this game with a gtx 465, which is about as strong as a HD 7770, and he could run this game flawlessly. Now that he switched to HD 7950, he did notice some fps drop on circus voltaire, teeheheh.

Only during the camera fly-through. Had no other issues while playing.

 

[Biff]

Only during the camera fly-through. Had no other issues while playing.

And the gtx465 is strong enough to play DX11? What settings did you use?
No slowdowns on Totan, BH and CV with camera 4?

 

[Sexton Hardcastle]

If you plan on buying a new video card, don't get an AMD one. Farsight will not support AMD, they never did. I experience slowdown on certain tables (not all of them), even on old tables like black hole, and I use a HD 7770. Try to understand why I get a steady 60 fps rate on TAF and not on TOAN, it doesn't make any sens at all. Everyone that I know who plays this game and use an AMD gpu report the same problem. But Farsight will not acknowledge the problem, or they will say they aren't able to reproduce the problem and the discussion will end there. Bottom line: you are required to buy a Nvidia gpu if you want to play PA. Thanks for your purchase.

We have three computers in the house we game on:

-Last week, I built an i5-4690k with an nvidia GTX 970.
-We have an i5-2500k with an nvidia gtx 660 ti.
-And the kids use an i5 2400 paired with a Radeon 7770.

And the Radeon hasn't had one lick of problem (nor have the other two, for that matter). I would think, looking at the parts you describe, that the game should run perfectly fine. Could there be driver issues?

 

[Bruno]

We have three computers in the house we game on:

-Last week, I built an i5-4690k with an nvidia GTX 970.
-We have an i5-2500k with an nvidia gtx 660 ti.
-And the kids use an i5 2400 paired with a Radeon 7770.

And the Radeon hasn't had one lick of problem (nor have the other two, for that matter). I would think, looking at the parts you describe, that the game should run perfectly fine. Could there be driver issues?

Drivers are up to date, sir. Are you using maximum graphic settings? Try Circus Voltaire or Black Hole, and switch to static camera 4 or 1. Tell me what happens. Usually, I experience fps lost only during events where the camera zooms on something, as I only use static camera 3 with events view set to on, but if I switch to those camera views on those particular tables, I get a constant slow down. And I'm not talking about a typical fps drop where the picture is stuttering, but about a slow down motion: the ball move veeeery slooowly. That's why I don't buy Mike's explanation. He simply concludes that my GPU sucks, while I'm pretty sure it's a bug or an optimization issue.

 

[Biff]

For instance, pinballwiz45b used to play this game with a gtx 465, which is about as strong as a HD 7770, and he could run this game flawlessly.

Maybe he didn't use the highest settings. I guess you could also play the game flawlessly with low(er) settings on your equivalent AMD card.

 

[Bruno]

Maybe he didn't use the highest settings. I guess you could also play the game flawlessly with low(er) settings on your equivalent AMD card.

Judging by the videos and the screen shots he uploaded, he did use highest settings. Anyways, he'll answer by himself.

Even though dx11 light effects are a good addition to PA, this game still looks somewhat ugly and from another era. It could have been released years ago. I can play Skyrim with highest settings and I get a steady 45-60 fps rate, depending on what is on screen. I guess PA is all of suddenly a more beautiful and more demanding game than Skyrim (but only on Cirqus Voltaire, TOTAN, and on the extremely demanding black hole).

It's too bad I don't know how to record a video, because you guys would see with your eyes that the fps drops I'm talking about aren't the kind of slow down you experience when you can't meet the suggested requirements of a demanding game.

This is my last post on this forum, and I'm opting out of beta.

 

[Heretic]

fwiw, iris 5100 intel igp, no benchmarks ran subjective experience from a mobile user

from a quick blast at 1366x768 lowest settings otherwise it runs most tables just fine eith no noticeable slow except on the tables many have mentioned , i seem to get smoothest preformance on higher camera angles zooming in will slowdown some.

overall plesantly susrprised really.

sure i might not be getting a smooth 60fps but im not that anal.

maybe some extra preformance scaling would help or a fiddle with some other settings who knows.

it plays most tables i play regularly just fine. but again im mostly a mobile player the eye candy is pretty sweeta nd games preformance is comparable even if the ball feels different heh

 

[Mike Reitmeyer]

Even though dx11 light effects are a good addition to PA, this game still looks somewhat ugly and from another era. It could have been released years ago. I can play Skyrim with highest settings and I get a steady 45-60 fps rate, depending on what is on screen. I guess PA is all of suddenly a more beautiful and more demanding game than Skyrim (but only on Cirqus Voltaire, TOTAN, and on the extremely demanding black hole).

Using a game like Skyrim as a comparison is not valid. The rendering in that game is quite different, not to mention they have over 100 developers and hundreds of millions of dollars to spend building it. In Skyrim they use techniques for culling out objects. For example in dungeons they use portal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal_rendering. They also use lower lod objects for things that are farther away. Lower rez textures on many objects because they are not looked at up close.

However, no where in Skyrim do they have 200 point lights in one location. In pinball we cannot cull anything out either, you see everything and you see it from a fairly short distance away. The demands of both games are just too different to compare.

I explained here
http://digitalpinballfans.com/showt...ow-performance?p=208237&viewfull=1#post208237
What causes slowdown. Just because a table isn't as "new" or has as many features does not mean it won't have performance issues.

 

[SilverBalls]

I built my cabinet at the start of 2011 and the PC I built consists of an early Core i7 with a GTX 480. The Graphics card drives two screens, a 42" playfield full HD and 28" backglass. This is now quite old kit, and I don't get any performance issues at the Max settings.

Sometimes a PC needs a bit of tuning. Don't put Norton AV on it, Skype, or any social app crap. Turn off unnecessary services, remove any apps running in the background, set nVidia panel to use Best performance, etc.

If you need an Antivirus on the PC then go for a good free lightweight one like Panda. Avast has become too bloated for it's own good.

TPA11 is coming on very nicely. Yes some textures could be improved and some lights could spread out their light more, but there are a lot of tables and the jump from DX9 to DX11 is a major improvement for me.

 

[Robert Misner]

Silverballs I agree..sure lots more to tweak would be grand (cab support, occulus rift support better clear plastic material support etc)...but for now,its really amazing how much more immersive the experience is.
I certainly appreciate the effort so far.

 

[Alex Atkin UK]

Speaking of Avast, but I'm really SICK of its popups now.

Keeps wanting me to use their VPN service (I have a VPN to my home connection when on public WiFi thanks, way more useful) and upgrade to their version that fixes issues with my PC (don't trust anything that doesn't tell me WHAT it thinks is wrong before I click fix).

Losing trust in them.

 

[Biff]

I built my cabinet at the start of 2011 and the PC I built consists of an early Core i7 with a GTX 480. The Graphics card drives two screens, a 42" playfield full HD and 28" backglass. This is now quite old kit, and I don't get any performance issues at the Max settings.

Are you talking about max settings for TPA DX11?
How do you use one screen for the playfield and another screen for the backglass?
The game currently doesn't allow you to split these parts.
Also, watching the playfield from a far distance in portrait mode without camera movement
doesn't hurt your GPU as much as when your play camera 4 in landscape mode.
You may want to try that with max settings, because this is Brunos issue here (on TOTAN, BH & CV).
(I also prefer portrait mode with static cam)