Extreme Oversight In Real Table Play From TPA Physics, What Else Could I Be Missing?

[thejake01]

Please excuse me if this is somewhere else already I was having a hard time finding it.

I haven't been playing as much recently but do pretty alright on TPA. Gotten top say 100 scores on alot of tables, top 20 on maybe 3 on steam.

Started in a league recently and one of the players recommended working on the drop catch. Watched a little clip video for a reminder the other day and started working on it with my home actual machine and man is it easier than I thought it'd be and can see how it will drastically improve my game.

Other than that obviously the live catch is pretty hard on TPA. Is there anything else you guys can think of that I might be missing that is close to impossible to do consistently on TPA?

Thanks!
-Jake

 

[DrainoBraino]

There are quite a few things that are impossible on TPA, in addition to drop catches. Forget about consistently, they are impossible.
A couple I can think of right now:
-Tap passes: Very quick, tiny button presses to make the ball pop from one flipper to the other. Impossible in TPA.
-Cradle separation: Holding two balls on one flipper, then a quick flip to separate one to the other flipper. Can be done in TPA, but doesn't work exactly like reality.
-Live catch: Timing the flipper so the ball meets the tip at the exact same time, stopping it instantly. Impossible in TPA.

 

[Pinballwiz45b]

There are quite a few things that are impossible on TPA, in addition to drop catches. Forget about consistently, they are impossible.
A couple I can think of right now:
-Tap passes: Very quick, tiny button presses to make the ball pop from one flipper to the other. Impossible in TPA.
-Cradle separation: Holding two balls on one flipper, then a quick flip to separate one to the other flipper. Can be done in TPA, but doesn't work exactly like reality.
-Live catch: Timing the flipper so the ball meets the tip at the exact same time, stopping it instantly. Impossible in TPA.

Actually, I've done tests for drop catches on TPA and they've worked; just not having them roll up the inlane a bit afterward.

 

[Biff]

Actually, I've done tests for drop catches on TPA and they've worked; just not having them roll up the inlane a bit afterward.

make a video please.

 

[ER777]

I captured a video a while ago doing some drop catches on STTNG for PS4. I didn't have a way to upload it at the time but I do now, I'll try to post that sometime soon here.

It definitely works a lot better on some tables than others, STTNG seems to be the easiest to do it on in my opinion.

 

[vikingerik]

Drop catches sort of work on TPA. What's missing is the flipper absorbing the ball's momentum. If the ball hits a half-raised flipper, it will bounce off whatever angle the flipper is at in that instant, as if the flipper were being rigidly held at that angle. It is possible to use this behavior for drop catching if you're precise enough at releasing the flipper to exactly the right angle at exactly the right instant so the ball bounces just a bit towards that inlane. But it's not very reliable as compared to dead passes which are ridiculously easy to control in TPA so I always just do that instead.

 

[Biff]

Still, would love to see a video. Not sure if we're talking about the same thing.

 

[ER777]

Let's try this.. took a few tries..

Not the greatest examples but you get the point.

As you can see this is completely true. Drop catches aren't nearly as reliable as on real machines but they work to an extent.

Drop catches sort of work on TPA. What's missing is the flipper absorbing the ball's momentum. If the ball hits a half-raised flipper, it will bounce off whatever angle the flipper is at in that instant, as if the flipper were being rigidly held at that angle. It is possible to use this behavior for drop catching if you're precise enough at releasing the flipper to exactly the right angle at exactly the right instant so the ball bounces just a bit towards that inlane. But it's not very reliable as compared to dead passes which are ridiculously easy to control in TPA so I always just do that instead.

Its also worth noting that its much easier when the ball isn't moving at full speed.

 

[vikingerik]

Great video, thanks for that effort!

That shows exactly what I was talking about. See how the ball bounces off the flipper (an inch or so) before the flipper is fully lowered. This does not happen with real flippers because the flipper would absorb the ball's momentum. A real ball can bounce only after the flipper reaches the resting position. It cannot bounce towards the inlane on a drop catch as TPA shows; it can only roll towards the inlane (catch early so you absorb all the momentum) or bounce towards the center (catch too late with momentum left to bounce).

 

[Biff]

Thanks for sharing the video. What controller & buttons do you use?
I've never played the game with touch control but I guess it is very difficult to do that
on a phone / tablet.

 

[ER777]

Great video, thanks for that effort!

That shows exactly what I was talking about. See how the ball bounces off the flipper (an inch or so) before the flipper is fully lowered. This does not happen with real flippers because the flipper would absorb the ball's momentum. A real ball can bounce only after the flipper reaches the resting position. It cannot bounce towards the inlane on a drop catch as TPA shows; it can only roll towards the inlane (catch early so you absorb all the momentum) or bounce towards the center (catch too late with momentum left to bounce).

Not a prob, it gave me a chance to try out the editing software they provide for the PS4 (which is actually pretty decent). Yeah I totally agree, I think the flipper in TPA always just falls at the set rate unlike the real flipper being pulled back by the spring that can absorb the extra speed when hit.

Thanks for sharing the video. What controller & buttons do you use?
I've never played the game with touch control but I guess it is very difficult to do that
on a phone / tablet.

I was using the L1/R1 buttons on the standard PS4 controller. I agree it would probably be tougher to time correctly with touch controls.

 

[Kratos3]

After playing some real tables for the first time in years, I have to say that the flipper physics in TPA leave a lot to be desired. I felt like the tip of the flipper came much more into play on the real thing, the rubbers don't seem to be as bouncy as on TPA, and there's just a lack of feel to the TPA flippers(which can be hard to recreate, I'm sure). I was constantly pulling shots to the side

Plus, the flipper sound in TPA needs to be a much louder, "sharper" sound. I would say the pop bumpers need to be more active and have a more aggressive sound in TPA as well. They sound a little thin compared to the real thing.

All in all, you just can't beat the FEEL of the real thing. Again, it's probably nearly impossible to truly recreate it in digital form, but improving the sound could go a long way towards that end.

 

[kinggo]

IMO, the biggest problem with flippers on TPA is that they behave so much differently from one machine to another. And while they are not exactly the same on each machine IRL, still, some things are pretty much granted and one doesn't need 20 games just to get used to how ball reacts to a contact with flipper.

 

[switch3flip]

You can also down-nudge to help catching the ball, or a timed up nudge that's on its way down when you make contact helps dampening speed.
Same goes for tap pass, a little nudge instead of tap. And cradle separation can also get some variety.
Not the exact same techniques as irl but the same results.

 

[ER777]

After playing some real tables for the first time in years, I have to say that the flipper physics in TPA leave a lot to be desired. I felt like the tip of the flipper came much more into play on the real thing, the rubbers don't seem to be as bouncy as on TPA, and there's just a lack of feel to the TPA flippers(which can be hard to recreate, I'm sure). I was constantly pulling shots to the side

For sure. The more real pinball I play the harder time I have adjusting to TPA when I turn it on (which is less often now that I have several real machines to play). I can usually adjust after like 20 minutes but its quite noticeably different how you need to handle the ball versus the real thing.