Feedback and issues on FX3 Williams Pinball Vol. 1 - Release version

[wilbers]

Just been playing the 5 minute The Getaway tourney, and same thing happened with that as with the survival challenge - got video mode twice in quick succession then (with 1 minute of the 5 minutes still left) got awarded end of ball bonus points and game ended.

Its a definite bug, not that there seem to be many - is someone on the forum passing any bugs onto Zen?

 

[bavelb]

I had the same happen to me in Fish Tales as well (2x video mode then end of ball, then game over). Also: It was in the 3 minute online score challenge. When it compared scores with the score I challenged and it reset my score to 0 as well.
edit: this was on switch

 

[bavelb]

MAybe this is par for the course for portrait mode, but on switch I have a few issues with this. Nothing that deters from playing, but a few blemishes on a nice package:
-On Medievel Madness, in portrait mode, the Door/Bridge toy has an ugly jarring white line. Almost as if the textures don't line up in this angle. Do portraitmodes in other versions have this as well?
-Most views in portrait mode block the view of the upper traffic lights in The Getaway, except view 8. Which brings me to my last point:
-This has been mentioned elsewhere in this thread/forum as well, but view 8 has a weird narrow look to it in portrait. It's a bit too zoomed and at the same time looks squished.

 

[Iga_Biva]

Flashers are way too weak - I noticed on MM they seem to glow on and off rather than flash and the light doesn't spread far. IRL they flood the whole table with light/colour hue. It's not a game engine limitation as far as I can tell, as the flashers on Rogue One cast light over the whole play area. There are also dazzling light effects on the Aliens tables.

Dynamic lighting for room and bulbs - I know this is in their roadmap though. I guess it can't be added to Zen original tables as they often have colour and brightness shifts that adjust according to gameplay. This isn't the case for Williams tables though and the very fact that the Zen originals feature variable brightness suggests it should be relatively easy for them to add as an option as it is already there in engine.

Rumble - Needs dialling up a bit; both stronger and triggered by more events on the playfield. It is something I felt TPA got spot on; you could really feel the ball slamming round the table.

Wireforms - They look matte compared to the real thing and generally don't seem to reflect lightsources on the tables. I am wondering if this has been left out to make porting to weaker systems easier. Going back to TPA I noticed varying approaches to them, with World cup soccer looking super reflective but even Fish Tales (earlier in TPAs life) has table lights reflected on them in a more diffuse manner (see the rail in middle of the table).

Freelook camera - I love that you can examine the table close up (at no extra charge!) but would love a ZOOM option added to the L2 R2 to get even closer; all that nice detail is worth studying!

This perfectly summarize my remarks too!

So what should be next steps?
Should someone repot this to Zen officially?
Or they are also reading the forum?

 

[shutyertrap]

They're reading the threads. Us mods can tell who has visited and read each and every thread, and I can see some of the Zen folk's user names even here.

 

[xAzatothx]

kudos to Zen. FX3 is really very good. I played more digital pinball over the weekend than I've played in the last 12 months. The tournament set up is a nice edition to to keep me coming back. Love being able to have an easy game in arcade mode and then play proper pinball in the tournament mode. Whilst I've only played MM at the moment, I plan to try the other tables this week.

cheers

 

[crazyflipperfingers]

It seems that the aiming for Junk Yard in classic singler player (Steam cabinet version with arcade physics) is not right, When you want to hit the wrecking ball, you have to shoot the ball at the very first part of the flipper. I compared it with the Zen Physics version (single player), and there it feels right - the point when you have to shoot is closer to the middle of the flipper. It would be great if you could have a look at this. Otherwise great work Zen!

I totally agree. I've mainly been playing Fish Tales, but I have the exact same issue. If I keep telling myself, "the shots are all early", then my aim is ok. If I try to aim as I would IRL though, everything is off. I can actually accept and deal with this since I've encountered differences between different instances of the same physical table. The one thing about the Zen physics that I can absolutely not get over though is the problem with "back hands". I've played numerous Fish Tales in real life and it's always been completely do-able to backhand the "Monster Fish" orbit from the left flipper, or back hand either ramp (left ramp from left flipper, or right ramp from right flipper). While it is technically possible to do in the Zen recreation, it is extremely difficult. I've noticed this on all the machines, not just Fish Tales. Almost all the comments in this thread are describing very minor visual issues. Doesn't anyone else think that gameplay is the most important part of the recreation? It's as if everybody just plays with a "flow" style and does not trap the ball to make specific shots. I seriously want to love this game. It looks fantastic. The added features, multiple physics options, and "remastering" are all phenomenal, but the gameplay is "off". All I care about (for the classic arcade physics) is that it plays like real life. Without realistic backhand physics, it's just not there. Zen's version is so far ahead of Farsight's in almost every way that I feel really spoiled and nit-picky about even bringing this up, but if they don't correct this, I feel I would enjoy going back and playing Fish Tales on Pinball Arcade more.

 

[bavelb]

Hmm in FT at least I have no issues backhanding the ramps. Backhanding the monster Fish orbit fails more often then not, but I have no IRL reference. The angle on it seems very tight at least, it looks like it should be difficult.

 

[crazyflipperfingers]

Hmm in FT at least I have no issues backhanding the ramps. Backhanding the monster Fish orbit fails more often then not, but I have no IRL reference. The angle on it seems very tight at least, it looks like it should be difficult.

We had a Fish Tales in the pinball league I belong to for about 2 years. Backhanding the Monster Fish is actually my preferred way to make the shot because there is less risk of draining if you miss. I never found it to be too hard. It's similar to backhanding the left orbit on AC/DC or Spider-man, easy to do and frequently the best way to go about it. At least you always have the option if the ball is on the "wrong" flipper and you need to make the shot.

Now on Farsight's version of Fish Tales you could even backhand the lock shot, but I don't know how realistic that is. Not enough for me to complain when it's not possible though.

 

[EldarOfSuburbia]

I'm pretty sure you can backhand the lock (and by extension, the Extra Ball standup) on a real Fish Tales. Of course I've not run into one in a long time (and the last one I did, was at a show, and wasn't working properly...).

Backhand shots are a weakness on all Zen's tables. Shots that, intuitively, you'd look at and think "yeah, that can be backhanded", just can't be. (Would love to see Corvette - a moving backhand shot to the Engine is quite possible on a well-maintained, freshly-waxed table because I've done it many times.)

MM has a similar issue, where the sweet spot for hitting the castle is (1) too high up on the flipper, and (2) too small. A real MM you can easily smack the castle from a decent-sized sweet spot on both flippers, even if the ball is moving. (TPA at least got the sweet spot right from a trap, but had difficulties with a moving ball.)

 

[mystman12]

It seems that the aiming for Junk Yard in classic singler player (Steam cabinet version with arcade physics) is not right, When you want to hit the wrecking ball, you have to shoot the ball at the very first part of the flipper. I compared it with the Zen Physics version (single player), and there it feels right - the point when you have to shoot is closer to the middle of the flipper. It would be great if you could have a look at this. Otherwise great work Zen!

This is an issue with all tables, but yeah, it's most glaring with Junkyard. Shots straight up the center of the playfield are just way too hard (If not impossible) and the direction the ball comes off of the flipper just isn't right. I'm surprised I'm not seeing this brought up that much, as in my humble opinion it's the most glaring issue with the physics currently. You should be able to nail the wrecking ball after a return from the inlane, but you just can't. You can't even hit it from a cradle.

 

[Pinballwiz45b]

Agreed about the wrecking ball on Junk Yard. It's a start but could use some more fine tuning.

 

[Citizen]

I've had dozens of direct wrecking ball hits and sneak-ins straight up the center of the pf in JY, and I haven't even played it much so far as it's my least favorite game of the 4, so it definitely isn't impossible, at least on Switch. That being said, I have noticed that my shots end up angled and banking off the standups around the wrecking ball way more often than they should.

 

[mystman12]

The shots aren't impossible, they're just not possible by normal means. You have to do things like get the ball to roll half way up a flipper, and when it stops, quickly drop and re-flip to hit it the ball straight up the center. Basically, situational stuff that you really can't control. It's giving me Future Pinball flashbacks because that has the same issue, just a lot worse.

 

[bavelb]

I honestly dont have an issue with JY on classic arcade and Im by no means an expert. Either from a regular inlane roll or a cradle I can hit the wrecking ball. If I miss it at least feels its because of me being too soon or early.

Hitting the gate in MM is a bit harder for me, hitting the posts quite a bit.

 

[Markus]

I've had dozens of direct wrecking ball hits and sneak-ins straight up the center of the pf in JY, and I haven't even played it much so far as it's my least favorite game of the 4, so it definitely isn't impossible, at least on Switch. That being said, I have noticed that my shots end up angled and banking off the standups around the wrecking ball way more often than they should.

It is no problem to hit the wrecking ball, but the thing is that the shot has to be made at the wrong point of the flipper (when playing classic arcade physics). It doesn't feel authentic.
On a real table (and also in the Zen physic version) the shot has to be made on a different point of the flipper which is closer to the middle of the flipper. This is very important for the gameplay IMO, it makes the gameplay feel authentic. I hope Zen will look into this issue, because classic arcade physics combined with accurate aiming / shots would be perfect for the williams tables.

 

[Zaphod77]

Zen mode flippers travel too high, but aim right.

classic mode flippers travel right, but aim wide.

then again i've played real pinball games that HAVE aimed like that. and it messes with me there too.

This problem has been in visual pinball for AGES.

The flipper/ball/friction action is very tricky to get right. Ultrapin had a feature called "oblique correction" that it used to cheat the flipper physics to make them aim sharper. perhaps something similar is needed here?

 

[Markus]

Zen mode flippers travel too high, but aim right.

classic mode flippers travel right, but aim wide.

Exactly ! I hobe Zen can adjust the aiming in classic mode (to get the right aiming there too)
Otherwise they did an amazing job. We just need the classic mode with the right aiming for our cabinets!