First Impressions: Diner

[DokkenRokken]

I cannot wait to check this out. I was one of the few around here who really enjoyed "Taxi".

To me, this always looked like a better, upgraded version of it, and that's why I voted for it in the poll.

 

[pm1109]

I cannot wait to check this out. I was one of the few around here who really enjoyed "Taxi".

To me, this always looked like a better, upgraded version of it, and that's why I voted for it in the poll.

Plays great on My IPAD
Even better on PC

 

[PitchBlank]

I cannot wait to check this out. I was one of the few around here who really enjoyed "Taxi".

To me, this always looked like a better, upgraded version of it, and that's why I voted for it in the poll.

They are closely related, they look closely related and for all I know the real machines might have felt very closely related in terms of how they played... but in PBA, Taxi is your friend and lets you drift into a comfortable flow, while Diner is resolutely adversarial like a school bully who kicks your ball into the nearest drainage and goes nyah-nyah.

 

[Kaoru]

Scored 203M during my livestream last night. Too easy.

Don't forget though that you are what people would call an expert player. You're pretty high on the score ranks for most tables. So your walk in the park might be someone else's hard time.

Personally I think it has the balance just right. It has some cruel draining spots and a few shots that aren't easy to pull off (Haven't quite figured out to securely aim for the right ramp and special hole yet), but I don't find it frustrating or annoying to play. Probably because you don't have way too many long-term goals and modes to achieve (because THEN those drains would manage to p**s me off, like with that Star Trek table, for instance), and because of the charming theme and its presentation. While the characters aren't as varied as on Taxi (one more female character wouldn't have hurt), they're still quite fun. I especially like that Margaret Thatcher-type lady who starts to shout "I haven't got all day!!" if she doesn't get served right away.

I don't like it quite as much as Taxi though because the rules aren't quite as clear and tidy (I had to look more often than I expected into the rules because I couldn't figure them out on my own) and it doesn't play as tightly, but it's a really fun that I can see myself digging out every once in a while, even when we're well into Season 5 and far beyond.

I wasn't too much into most of what we got in Season 3 so far... but with this one and High Roller Casino it seems like we're finally getting some tables with long-term fun. To be honest I can't remember when I last played Junkyard or Black Knight 2000 - or what most of the tables even were, for that matter.

 

[DanBradford]

first impressions:

it looks nice, but almost like a copy of Taxi
the music is cheesy, which is ok by me
the game is hard, and gives one decent go for every 20 rubbish ones.
the skill shot is not worth it. i can try to time it for the 150K but miss so often that i do just as well by random plunges.

the left ramp is where the money is - if i ever get the thing under control, my technique will be one R ramp to light lock, then one L ramp to lock a ball, start MB at the spinner, then hit spinner and Special hole for 'The Rush', which pays extra for every L ramp.

then after MB ends, another R ramp to relight lock, lock a ball, four more L ramps to light EB at the grill, as many more L ramps as i can manage to wind up the Jackpot shot as high as i can, start MB again on the spinner, flail about at drop targets until Jackpot (Dine Time?) lights, and spinner to collect a big Jackpot.

easier said than done. i played this about 3h so far, these were my scores:
1M or so - loads
2M-5M - maybe twenty games
5M-15M - maybe five
top 3 scores ever - 16M, 18M, and my best was 35M.

i like it, but with 300 points earned, i can't see me spending too many more hours on it tbh. not with 49 other games to choose from

 

[kinggo]

I really don't get why everyone sees TAXI 2 in this one. Sure, the are are similarities but the same can be said for a lot of other tables. TAXI is great, one of my favourite but it's much more "shallow" than this. The only thing in TAXI worth going on is a 1M shot, jackpot sucks, too much work for nothing. In Diner one can choose a strategy to go for a high score, there's a lot more things going on and 3 completely different thing that can score some significant points.

 

[Krooze L-Roy]

That's good to hear. I always have to chuckle a bit when people complain about outlanes as almost all real pinball machines have "hungry" outlanes because that's what they're there to do: gobble up your balls...as dirty as it sounds.

Stuff like kickbacks and ballsaves are really effective at nullifying the feelings of "unfairness" that pinball can have, and they've become so ubiquitous that their presence has sort of determined what people perceive as the "baseline" difficulty for pinball. A game like Diner, which has neither feature, stands out as being extra cruel, but I'm not even sure there are more drains necessarily - just more punishment - which makes the drains stand out more. In other words, you don't get pissed off at the "unfair" drain that gets kicked back at you.

Personally, I enjoy the cleanness and purity of a game that cuts you no slack. But if I had to actually drop quarters, I'd probably gravitate more to the games that have a gentler leeway-to-punishment ratio when it comes to drains. Sort of a delicate balancing act for the developers, I imagine, and I also imagine that balance changed as arcades began to decline; you could afford to make games longer in the hope of return patronage. If people were lined up to play, you'd want shorter, meaner games.

the skill shot is not worth it. i can try to time it for the 150K but miss so often that i do just as well by random plunges.

Release the plunger when the jukebox is at 100, a millisecond before it switches to 75. Diner is a game where you can pretty much get the skillshot every time, and it's a reliable source of points, especially with the strategy you describe, in which you actively avoid stirring the cup to maximize multiballs.

 

[Dedpop]

Another System 11. I'm happy.

I want them ALL !

 

[Fungi]

Stuff like kickbacks and ballsaves are really effective at nullifying the feelings of "unfairness" that pinball can have, and they've become so ubiquitous that their presence has sort of determined what people perceive as the "baseline" difficulty for pinball. A game like Diner, which has neither feature, stands out as being extra cruel, but I'm not even sure there are more drains necessarily - just more punishment - which makes the drains stand out more. In other words, you don't get pissed off at the "unfair" drain that gets kicked back at you.

I don't know, STTNG and FP still piss me off more than Taxi.

 

[kinggo]

I want them ALL !

+1
but I would be fine with just one. Radical! Skate or die.

 

[DanBradford]

Release the plunger when the jukebox is at 100, a millisecond before it switches to 75. Diner is a game where you can pretty much get the skillshot every time, and it's a reliable source of points, especially with the strategy you describe, in which you actively avoid stirring the cup to maximize multiballs.

i would normally agree, but it won't allow me to pull back the plunger and wait for my time, after less than a second it autoplunges somehow (is this even possible on the real game?) so it requires a double dexterity manoever that isn't worth the extra 50K or so

 

[kinggo]

on android you can wait for the right moment and it's actually quite easy to hit#1. Maybe it is some iOS bug.

 

[Krooze L-Roy]

i would normally agree, but it won't allow me to pull back the plunger and wait for my time, after less than a second it autoplunges somehow (is this even possible on the real game?) so it requires a double dexterity manoever that isn't worth the extra 50K or so

Yeah, sounds like some sort of bug. The table just has a traditional plunger, with no auto-launch capability.

The points are multiplied by the ball number, so in a game filled with extra balls and ball locks, you're potentially being deprived of millions of points.

 

[Fungi]

I do not have a plunger issue with my iPad. I let go at 100k at always get no.1.

 

[Baron Rubik]

On Android you can overload the max no of app touch points quite easily, which causes an auto plunge.
To do this, pull plunger back and hold, then touch any other screen point. Ping - off it goes.

 

[kinggo]

The points are multiplied by the ball number, so in a game filled with extra balls and ball locks, you're potentially being deprived of millions of points.

well, no. You can have 10 EB on ball #3 (OK, you can't) but it will be only x3. So 450k is max one can get from skill shot per ball.

 

[Krooze L-Roy]

well, no. You can have 10 EB on ball #3 (OK, you can't) but it will be only x3. So 450k is max one can get from skill shot per ball.

Yeah, 450K is the max per plunge, but you can get those points every time you launch a ball, which means after locks or at the start of extra balls too, so those points can add up over the course of a game, especially if you hit your stride on Ball 3.

 

[JefferyD]

Diner is the first season 3 table since FishTales and Black Rose to really grab me from the get-go. With extra balls turned off I struggled through a gaggle of games probably averaging below 5 mil. I broke through with a 15 million effort and then hovered slightly below that for a while. Got 22 mil and then the bottom dropped out and I was tossed back to sad, single digit games.

Moments ago I hit a 39 million game. Felt great! I followed that up with a 2 million game. Totally frustrating. This is how I like it.

I've played this a lot already; some sleeping hours have been sacrificed. It's a fun one!

 

[David T. Melnick]

I never tried Drainer... sorry, Diner back in the day, but I did play Taxi a few times and given the similarities I assumed the gameplay would be somewhat Taxi-esque. Unfortunately it was more reminiscent of Fish Tales. A great score on Taxi is the result of solid, patient and consistent labor. A great score on FT or Diner is the result of getting lucky with a few bells and whistles that put the score in a whole different league. I prefer the Taxi way, but that's just me.

Design wise I love it, the layout is sweet, the artwork and theme are very fitting for pinball. I have an issue with the rollover lane lights, they're obstructed in all four views, but FS can't help that.

Gameplay wise I found it to be one of the most difficult tables on PBA (right up there with Fish Tales). Nobody like Mark Ritchie to make it feel like the flippers are so far apart the Titanic could've passed between them. Out of the 50 PBA tables so far, this one has to take the cake when it comes to reliance on nudging, which sucks if you're on iOS. I got to 14.'6k HoF points without bothering with nudging (even on Central Park), but for this table I guess it's more important than controlling the actual flippers. These outlines are so ravenous they give Cirqus Voltaire a run for its money. A magic invisible hand actually stops balls that are already in the inlane and make them go back and sneak around the bend to the outlane, and it happens so fast you wouldn't have time to react even if you were prepared to nudge. This combined with unsurpassed drainorama down the middle makes it a hopeless case for nudge-free playing. I haven't quit and restarted as frequently on any other table.

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Thought of Fish Tales also (when I downloaded it today). Great art also.

 

[David T. Melnick]

I really don't get why everyone sees TAXI 2 in this one. Sure, the are are similarities but the same can be said for a lot of other tables. TAXI is great, one of my favourite but it's much more "shallow" than this. The only thing in TAXI worth going on is a 1M shot, jackpot sucks, too much work for nothing. In Diner one can choose a strategy to go for a high score, there's a lot more things going on and 3 completely different thing that can score some significant points.

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share the same thought there.