First Licensed FX3 Williams Speculation

[trash80]

I would love that. And thanks for mentioning this as I didn’t even know about this new movie coming out. It looks great! How would a 2 pack work on mobile though where the originals and Williams tables are in separate apps? I guess they would have to be released separately at seperate prices.

Mobile already gets treated differently from how things are on Steam/Console. I wouldn't be surprised to see something like an Addams Family or Indiana Jones where there are a combination of recreations and originals in a multi-table pack being released as standalone mobile apps.

Also, I would somewhat expect Zen to fracture off into a William Pinball 2 and 3 etc at some point since the way mobile works doesn't scale very well after a certain number of tables. But who knows...

 

[Scared Stiff]

Mobile already gets treated differently from how things are on Steam/Console. I wouldn't be surprised to see something like an Addams Family or Indiana Jones where there are a combination of recreations and originals in a multi-table pack being released as standalone mobile apps.

Also, I would somewhat expect Zen to fracture off into a William Pinball 2 and 3 etc at some point since the way mobile works doesn't scale very well after a certain number of tables. But who knows...

No. That would be too complex for not only the user, but for Zen as well they would have to maintain all these separate apps. Mobile can scale just as good (or bad) as any PC or pincab version, so I don’t really see the issue. All they have to do is make a nice interface, maybe let you pin your favorites to a top page and boom...done. I never really had an issue in TPA, so don’t know why it would be an issue only resolved with seperate apps now. Which again, would be quite messy and way worse than any UI issues with too many tables.

 

[trash80]

No. That would be too complex for not only the user, but for Zen as well they would have to maintain all these separate apps. Mobile can scale just as good (or bad) as any PC or pincab version, so I don’t really see the issue. All they have to do is make a nice interface, maybe let you pin your favorites to a top page and boom...done. I never really had an issue in TPA, so don’t know why it would be an issue only resolved with seperate apps now. Which again, would be quite messy and way worse than any UI issues with too many tables.

Zen already creates separate apps (usually based on IP) for mobile. It isn't a technical limitation of the platform, but a monetization one. And in Williams Pinball for Mobile, we are seeing complaints with the unlock/grind scheme with just 10 tables, now imagine the system with 100 (or just 20)... it would be untenable.

 

[Kolchak357]

I'm going to dress up as Congo, the star of Congo. I assume, I don't remember if I ever even saw Congo.

My point being, give me Congo, Zen.

This would be one of my most wanted as well. We haven’t seen it in digital form yet and that is a big plus for me. I also really dig the layout and toys. A fun pin that often gets overlooked because of the poop theme. The lower playfield is a bit easy and the backglasss is a dog imo, but everything else is top notch in my eyes.

 

[shutyertrap]

Zen already creates separate apps (usually based on IP) for mobile. It isn't a technical limitation of the platform, but a monetization one. And in Williams Pinball for Mobile, we are seeing complaints with the unlock/grind scheme with just 10 tables, now imagine the system with 100 (or just 20)... it would be untenable.

If, and that's a big IF, Zen takes a licensed table like TAF and then creates original tables from that same license, it will indeed be interesting to see how they break them up. I don't see the original table being put in the Williams app (nor should it), but I also don't see them creating a whole bunch of individual apps again, like they did for Aliens and Bethesda. In FX3 I imagine there'd be another column added for that license or for a studio, with the original placed there. On mobile, the original would get released to the Zen app as a stand-alone while the Williams version would go into that app. We've been told eventually the Zen app will get upgraded to have FX3 functionality, and I believe the Williams app is being used as a test bed for what that will eventually become.

Zen likes to do things in stages, isolating potential issues and addressing them in a small sample size before applying it to everything. The Aliens app informed the Bethesda app which informed the Williams app. Mel says the mobile department is still tinkering with the Williams app, making adjustments. I expect once that gets settled down to final, work will start on a full platform style app for Zen mobile. Since the 3 original tables got pushed to 2020, it's not like there's any rush. A lot truly does come down to what Zen decides to do with licensed tables. Much as they want to create originals with those same titles, it might be a logistical nightmare. Take TAF; you wouldn't be able to do originals of the movie version, as Raul's estate is forbidden from using his likeness for anything new. You could do the new animated version, but it's from a different studio (MGM and Universal distributing as opposed to Paramount) and couldn't be mixed. That leaves the Addams estate to deal with, and you'd be basing it solely off the comics? Messy to say the least.

Side note about the unlock/grind of the mobile app...

Clash Royale has 84 different 'cards' to upgrade. Each has 13 levels, max costs 100K coins to complete. Cards are broken down into common, rare, epic, and legendary, the drops of those cards equating to their classification. A common card level up easily till about level 9, then requires hundreds of cards. Legendary only requires 20 cards for its final level, but as the name implies, you almost never get those card drops, and there's 14 of them those drops are split between. I've been playing the game over 2 years and still haven't maxed a single one of those, but I'm close on 2. It's a classic grind for upgrades mobile app, there's plenty of gems and coins you can just straight up purchase, and unless you used real money, there is no way in hell you'll ever be able to fully unlock everything in the game.

What works in its favor is there's no need to upgrade it all. On top of that they've set caps and such on card drops, plus allow for clan trades and bonus chests. The Williams app won't be "untenable" with 20 tables if they make some basic changes to the app. The first is hard capping parts so once you've collected 170 of them, upgraded or not, you'll not get more of that particular part. The second is having ways of earning bonus coins during certain events. Bonus weekends or special daily challenges, something that'll net you a lot more coins for joining in. The third, and I think I got through to Mel on this, is to let people sample the better physics in events without having to upgrade. If a person tries it and feels it's not for them, then who cares about upgrading? It's sort of how I feel about a lot of the Clash cards that I never will use or play. No sense wasting coin and upgrades on them if I'm not going to use them. That being said, IF Zen does nothing to the Williams app and leaves it as is, you are 100% correct that the app will fold on itself and become "untenable" to most users once all 19 non licensed DMD tables are in.

 

[trash80]

There are currently 12 different Zen pinball mobile apps and each is a specific IP. a Marvel app, a Star Wars app, a Bethesda app, an Aliens app, a Bob's Burger app, a Family Guy app, etc. etc...

Why do you think this will change? For instance, once we see (MB and CftBL) released, it will certainly be in its own Universal Monsters mobile app, not included in the current Williams mobile app.

I know the only info we ever got from Mel regarding the idea about original tables based on third party IP tied to Williams tables was that that would be something that they would look into. And I think many of us here have let our wishes run wild about the possibilities. But the truth may be that we never see any more third party based original tables from Zen ever again.

 

[shutyertrap]

There are currently 12 different Zen pinball mobile apps and each is a specific IP. a Marvel app, a Star Wars app, a Bethesda app, an Aliens app, a Bob's Burger app, a Family Guy app, etc. etc...

Why do you think this will change? For instance, once we see (MB and CftBL) released, it will certainly be in its own Universal Monsters mobile app, not included in the current Williams mobile app.

The IP holders did not want to share the spotlight, so they got their own individual apps. All those table also appear in the Zen app though. If you bought the tables in the individual app, they'd also be unlocked in Zen but not vice versa. Interestingly, neither Jurassic Park or the Universal pack of ET, Jaws, and BTTF got their own app, and those were the last 2 licensed packs to be released. I'm fairly certain this will follow suit for Williams if the IP holder demands it, but Mel has said all Williams tables will be available together and not separated.

I'm telling you, Zen is trying to consolidate to a single platform instead of being splintered every which way. I'll even go one further, that if they strike a deal with Stern at some point those tables will be in a column of their own right next to Williams in FX3. Yes Stern would get its own mobile app, but maybe by that time the core Zen app will also have Williams in there too.

 

[trash80]

The IP holders did not want to share the spotlight, so they got their own individual apps. All those table also appear in the Zen app though. If you bought the tables in the individual app, they'd also be unlocked in Zen but not vice versa. Interestingly, neither Jurassic Park or the Universal pack of ET, Jaws, and BTTF got their own app, and those were the last 2 licensed packs to be released. I'm fairly certain this will follow suit for Williams if the IP holder demands it, but Mel has said all Williams tables will be available together and not separated.

I'm telling you, Zen is trying to consolidate to a single platform instead of being splintered every which way. I'll even go one further, that if they strike a deal with Stern at some point those tables will be in a column of their own right next to Williams in FX3. Yes Stern would get its own mobile app, but maybe by that time the core Zen app will also have Williams in there too.

I know they will stay in the same FX3 ecosystem on the consoles and Steam. That was never in doubt.

Ludia may have something to do with no separate JP pack on mobile. And who knows about the other Universal pack, though USIE has had numerous mobile games pop up from time to time in the past featuring various IP, and maybe there is some exclusivity in play that we don't know about.

The future of the different mobile formats will likely be dictated by which revenue model makes the most sense. I know Mel was saying the Williams app was charting new ground for them in this area. So if micro transactions, virtual coins and an ad view paywall is the future, it may not work with how the Zen mobile app is designed.

Either way... I'm not too worried about it.

 

[Scared Stiff]

Zen already creates separate apps (usually based on IP) for mobile. It isn't a technical limitation of the platform, but a monetization one. And in Williams Pinball for Mobile, we are seeing complaints with the unlock/grind scheme with just 10 tables, now imagine the system with 100 (or just 20)... it would be untenable.

Sure, they might have to adapt that system a little over time, but trust me when I say people aren’t going to want their Williams and Bally collections spread over multiple apps.

Also, the apps you mentioned are one-offs. In other words they just take their existing game and split off a table or two into a licensed IP theme and don’t touch it again. Completely different situation than splitting the same content across different apps that are added to every few months. I mean really, do you want to ponder which app Pinbot is in when you want to play it? Or whatever table you are looking for? I sure don’t. I sure as heck hope that’s not how things will happen. That would be horrible.

 

[trash80]

Sure, they might have to adapt that system a little over time, but trust me when I say people aren’t going to want their Williams and Bally collections spread over multiple apps.

Also, the apps you mentioned are one-offs. In other words they just take their existing game and split off a table or two into a licensed IP theme and don’t touch it again. Completely different situation than splitting the same content across different apps that are added to every few months. I mean really, do you want to ponder which app Pinbot is in when you want to play it? Or whatever table you are looking for? I sure don’t. I sure as heck hope that’s not how things will happen. That would be horrible.

Oh, I agree 100%. But us here on this board are not part of their majority mobile app user base. There will be plenty of people that only want a specific third-party IP table and don't want to wade through all the other tables to get to it.

These apps weren't just "split off." And back when original table packs were being released they too were being added to/updated regularly. Plenty of people have installed a few of these single IP apps without ever bothering to install the Zen app which lets you play the same content.

But it isn't just "a little" that they will need to adjust the app. They would need to completely overhaul the current mobile app challenge system and the 'freemium' business model.

Seriously go read the reviews of Bethesda Pinball which uses a similar app model to Williams, and keep in mind this app is only three tables.

Will someone that wants to play/earn Twilight Zone (because they are a fan of the IP) grind away on Party Zone and Safecracker and (insert other table) for days and weeks before they may get a chance to have Twilight Zone pop up in the challenge selection? Or would a full priced app that has just the Twilight Zone (and appear in the marketplace under Twilight Zone) table be more apropos? Ultimately, I think Zen will figure out how to do both just as they have already been doing.

 

[McLovin]

Edit: Granted, I have no idea if Hungarians care about Halloween. But I would assume they at least know we do it here, where most of their consumerbase is.

We have like a more serious version of it called 'All Saints' day where you go out to the cemetery and remember loved ones. There are a bunch of Halloween parties and events popping up in the last 10 years though.

 

[curtis]

I'm going to dress up as Congo, the star of Congo. I assume, I don't remember if I ever even saw Congo.

My point being, give me Congo, Zen.

I found and played Congo, for the first time, last Friday. It's an excellent pinball table! Another great one, IMHO, from Williams. I'd love to see it digitized.