Flipper lag theory

[KingMixer]

I've got a 80g slim running into a Samsung 53" 1080p TV. I definitely noticed flipper lag, but am used to it from playing so long. Yesterday I adjusted the TV to "game mode" and the lag seemed to lessen considerably, maybe even go away.

 

[ER777]

I have a Samsung TV as well, its a 1080p 120hz 40" model. Yesterday, at the suggestion of a friend, I tried setting my PS3 to only output at 720p before playing TPA. I was skeptical but it actually made a difference too. Now playing in 720p with game mode on the flipper lag is basically gone. The flippers still don't feel quite as tight as in the PHoF version but they're pretty close now. I would suggest giving that a try too just to see if it helps a little more, if not you can always just set it back to 1080p.

 

[pinbot-76]

After playing TPA on both Xbox and PS3, in my opinion the game plays much better on the Xbox. If I didn't have the 360 I would not be satisfied with PS3 results. The newest game pack for example, I'm having a terribly hard time locking balls on BK. I use the PS3 as a pacifier until the Xbox tables are ready. The artwork on the menu screen for BK and Creature are all jagged too, low resolution.

I've heard all kinds of wacky "fixes". Why do none of the other PS3 games I play have input lag? It's not my TV or PS3 settings...

 

[Crush3d_Turtle]

After playing TPA on both Xbox and PS3, in my opinion the game plays much better on the Xbox. If I didn't have the 360 I would not be satisfied with PS3 results. The newest game pack for example, I'm having a terribly hard time locking balls on BK. I use the PS3 as a pacifier until the Xbox tables are ready. The artwork on the menu screen for BK and Creature are all jagged too, low resolution.

I've heard all kinds of wacky "fixes". Why do none of the other PS3 games I play have input lag? It's not my TV or PS3 settings...

I am in the same situation with both a PS3 and a 360 hooked up to the same tv with both inputs having the same game mode settings. The 360 version looks and runs far better than the PS3 with no flipper lag whatsoever. When I play the PS3 version, all of the tables are incredibly dark and I experience some pretty bad flipper lag. I really wish the PS3 version was better since I would like to take advantage of the Vita/PS3 cross play instead of having to buy the DLC more than once.

 

[ROTTEN]

Farsight, this needs to get fixed ASAP!! The game looks like crap in 720p, but it's the only way to get rid of the flipper lag. Even in 720p there are a few tables that have slight flipper lag. I really hate having to constantly change my PS3 rez. Any word on a fix for the input lag in 1080p?? Would be great to hear from a developer on this.

 

[smbhax]

In some thread about balls going through flippers, one of their developers said that at some point they're going to try to get a general performance increase for the PS3 version, which would help decrease flipper physics issues--I suppose that would help this laggy input response issue as well.

 

[superballs]

I still haven't seen anyone rule out the other wireless device interfering with the controller theory. I can't test it. I don't have a PS3. However, if it were a game issue, why is it that some are not experiencing it and others are claiming it makes the game almost unplayable. I can't fathom that such a difference in experience is just a perception issue.

 

[SKILL_SHOT]

Ive hooked my slim up to 3 different HDTV's with 3 different HDMI cables using 3 different controllers NO LAG.
Those experiencing lag are you using an older HDTV? what are your video settings on the PS3? Why hasnt FS commented on this with their THEORIES?

 

[superballs]

Cause Farsight plays on 360.

Just kidding...I'm pretty sure they have a PS3, but it's also possible that they don't have any lag either.
I've seen a lot of people with lag chime in that plugging in the controller helps. I think the interference theory is pretty solid...i mean PS3 controllers are bluetooth aren't they? If you have lag...try playing with your wireless router unplugged, make sure BT is disabled on your phone...move fluorecent fixtures...disable wireless on any device nearby that might use it. Not sure...but radio interference is a very real problem and the free world must put a stop to it NOW!!!!....erm...well maybe give it a try?

 

[SKILL_SHOT]

I play listening to my AM radio (SPORTS) as it takes the pressure off the HURRY UP shots and just PLAY.
Yes PS3 controllers are blue tooth and I dont have a cell but I could try my bt headpiece to see if that makes a difference but arnt people having lag plugged in too? Need a chart like table release except users with lag and perametors for scenarios.
USER NAME/ controller-stock,AM plugged-unplugged/ TV- refresh 60-120,/ PS3 slim,fat
there might be a pattern to narrow this down.
I'm frustrated for PS3 users and I dont have lag.

 

[brakel]

I still haven't seen anyone rule out the other wireless device interfering with the controller theory. I can't test it. I don't have a PS3. However, if it were a game issue, why is it that some are not experiencing it and others are claiming it makes the game almost unplayable. I can't fathom that such a difference in experience is just a perception issue.

Its the game. Period. End of story. If it were anything but the game then the same people that have lag would have it on Zen Pinball and other games, but they don't. So its the game. I have figured out that TPA does not play well with the new Sony controllers. I don't know what Sony did to them in the last year or two but they are different. My guess is that they are using a different radio for their bluetooth connection. But it is only a theory. This I do know. If I have more than one of the new Sony controllers in the same room then the flippers get laggy. This ONLY happens in TPA. No other game that I have has any problems with the new Sony controllers. Its the game. Farsight is welcome to come over to my house and I can replicate the problem on demand for them. There is something wrong with the way the game interfaces with the new Sony controllers. Its the game. If I have been able to figure this out then I have no doubt that there could be other controller issues in the game that I have not been able to boil down.

Since I've figured out what causes the problem for me, I've been pretty good at eliminating the problem as well. But I can't play the game with my family the way that I want to. I still love the game but I really wish Farsight would fix it. If it is easier for Farsight, I'd be willing to be paid to come to their studio and replicate the problem for them.

 

[lqdsky]

I had pulled the battery from my ps3 controller to make it lighter and play all my games plugged in. I play allot of battlefield and need the quick response time. I have not noticed any lag (or very little and not noticeable) playing pinball arcade. I have a Samsung Led LCD and with Pinball Arcade or Zen the game setting is a must and does improve. But when I play other FPS games the game setting makes them worse. Not sure why that would be.

 

[SKILL_SHOT]

I just played with 4 controllers on not wired in and a bluetooth earpiece on NO LAG.

 

[shutyertrap]

Well, Brakel you're from Denmark, while Skill_Shot is in the US. Is there a different frequency that gets used in Europe as opposed to the US? And what new controller are you talking about? Mine is what came with the PS3 slim, so Dualshock 3. Have you tried aftermarket controllers and had the same issue?

I can't really join in the conversation much since my tv is a rear projection CRT, and lag isn't an issue. Interestingly enough though, on certain TV stations I get lag in audio (but that's the satellites fault), and if that lag there is like what you're experiencing with the game, I can totally understand how frustrating it must be.

Anyway, I just thought I'd throw out the UK vs US theory, see if there's any credibility to it.

 

[smbhax]

However, if it were a game issue, why is it that some are not experiencing it and others are claiming it makes the game almost unplayable. I can't fathom that such a difference in experience is just a perception issue.

I can. It's subtle enough that if you aren't looking for it or expecting it, you probably won't realize it's there--unless you've read about it online or are a pinball wizard of some kind. You can kind of adjust to it and then forget about it, and--for me, at least--it isn't really obvious unless you have something to compare it to directly; so I'll forget about it for a while, then play Pinball Hall of Fame: The Williams Collection on my PS3, even some of the same tables, then come back to Pinball Arcade, and realize that my flippers are swinging a fraction of a second late until I readjust and get back in the habit of pressing the button slightly early.

Also, it does seem to come and go a little bit. I've had times where it is fairly noticeable, then I quit the game and restart, and wasn't as bad. And if it's performance related, which I still think is the only thing that could really be causing this type of issue--then it will vary by table, by camera angle--the low angles probably being worse, as we saw with the "slow motion" bug a version or so ago--and especially--as has been pointed out in this thread--by the resolution at which you're running your PS3--ie if you're at something less than 1080p you probably won't see the problem because the game runs smoother at lower resolutions since it doesn't have to spend as much time rendering those fewer pixels. So that's quite a bit of variation right there.

But yeah I do think perception can account for a lot of it. Someone who's used to playing at a very high level and who relies on absolute split-second response to their input for live catches and the like would notice right away, I would think--I'm not good enough to be one of those people--that their playing is impaired. More casual players such as myself who don't do fancy things with the flippers can just get used to hitting the button a split-second earlier, more or less unconsciously. I had a friend, a casual pinball player like myself, over the other night and watched him do this: on his first swings at his first ball, he swung late and the shots went wide; by his second ball he'd adjusted and was shooting accurately. He doesn't know about any input lag issue; he just adjusted to the slight response delay automatically, without even noticing it consciously.

 

[Bonzo]

It's "demark" not "Denmark" for a reason

 

[brakel]

Well, Brakel you're from Denmark, while Skill_Shot is in the US. Is there a different frequency that gets used in Europe as opposed to the US? And what new controller are you talking about? Mine is what came with the PS3 slim, so Dualshock 3. Have you tried aftermarket controllers and had the same issue?

I can't really join in the conversation much since my tv is a rear projection CRT, and lag isn't an issue. Interestingly enough though, on certain TV stations I get lag in audio (but that's the satellites fault), and if that lag there is like what you're experiencing with the game, I can totally understand how frustrating it must be.

Anyway, I just thought I'd throw out the UK vs US theory, see if there's any credibility to it.

I'm not from Denmark. I'm from the U.S. My location is not a typo. It says "at the demark" not Denmark.

Anyway, in the last year or so Sony started making a new PS3 controller. It is pretty much exactly like the old ones but the buttons feel different. I probably never would have noticed the difference except that I bought three new controllers at one time. The controllers that my family was using were more than 4 years old and the batteries just didn't hold a charge like they used to. Anyway, one of the controllers was of the old variety and the other two were of the new variety. I don't think it is a coincidence that the "old" one was a regular black one and the "new" ones were some of the new funky colors that they have. When the controllers wouldn't work right with TPA I returned them and got two other ones of yet different colors. Turns out these had the same problem. Then we discovered that the problem was only with TPA and only when both of the "new" controllers were turned on. The fix for us is to make sure that at least one of the "new" controllers is plugged into the usb cord.

The way that I could differentiate the "new" controllers from the "old" ones is by the feel of the buttons. I'm comparing the "old" controller that was new out of the box with the "new" controllers. I'm not comparing new controllers with old worn in ones. The "new" controllers buttons are so stiff that they feel like they are "snapping" into place. The "old" new controller had a much more smooth feel to the buttons. This is the only way that I can tell the difference between them.

 

[shutyertrap]

I'm not from Denmark. I'm from the U.S. My location is not a typo. It says "at the demark" not Denmark.

Ahahahahaha! Oops. Amazing what your eyes see sometimes, no?

 

[brakel]

Ahahahahaha! Oops. Amazing what your eyes see sometimes, no?

Yes. At first I couldn't figure out why you thought I was from Denmark. There are people in Denmark with the name of Van Brakel so at first I thought it was that...and then it dawned on me about the demark thing.

 

[Jeff Strong]

Ahahahahaha! Oops. Amazing what your eyes see sometimes, no?

Yes. At first I couldn't figure out why you thought I was from Denmark. There are people in Denmark with the name of Van Brakel so at first I thought it was that...and then it dawned on me about the demark thing.

I also thought you were from Denmark all this time