FX3 Williams Thoughts

[wilbers]

I can't disagree with the OP's central point strong enough. Farsight's handling of the licences from a technical standpoint was hot garbage. I wish they lost the rights to official tables years ago so this reboot could've come a out sooner.

Maybe its a good thing it took that long for Zen to get the license; there is the question of whether all the features in FX3 would have been developed regardless if Zen had got the license in 2016, or would they have carried on with FX2 and only added some of what was added in FX3. Either way what we have now is an absolutely fantastic game that is getting even better when the Williams tables are added.

Edit : SYT beat me to it, making the same point.

 

[wolfson]

wake up boofies , if we didn`t have Farsight , Zen wouldn`t have the WMS . they would`ve continued with there fantasy tables . Farsight have a total of 25 people working for them , Zen has 40 just on pinball not counting the rest of them . like Chris said , while your waiting for new tables most of us will playing our TPA tables . also we have choices in this world , if you didn`t like TPA maybe you shouldn`t have bought them , you did have trials to test them . I bought every table on 3 platforms , do I have any regrets , NO F...… WAY . am I looking forward to Zen doing the WMS , you betcha little booties I am !!!

 

[wolfson]

i forgot , i have every Zen table on 3 platforms , i love all forms of pinball , this is a new era with Zen !!!

 

[joeblow]

But who's to say how much better it would have been then? According to our interview with Mel Kirk, FX3 was designed with WMS in mind and we've only had this platform for a year now. WMS in FX2 would have been fine, but it wouldn't have these new physics necessarily, certainly not this look. And in a previous interview Mel stated they could have had the license as far back as 2016. Go play some of the off brand pinball games that are available on Steam, then tell me again how much TPA was "hot garbage".

I'm on PS4, and the only way to play the licensed tables used to be through TPA. With that said, I stand by every syllable I posted - that the technical handling of the game platform by Farsight on the system was 100%, USDA Choice, hot garbage.

Pinball at its heart is an interactive audio/visual rush of an experience. And the way that FS treated it *for years!* is an absolute embarassment to the gaming industry. Sure, there have been plenty of bad and buggy games released for decades. But with TPA, not unlike games in the MMO genre or other long-running titles that constantly sell new DLC content, they left the major bugs in *and even created new ones!* all while adding new content for purchase to support the title.

TPA launched on the system with an embarrassing audio bug that made he game at times sound like it was made on the Colecovision from the 80s. The raspy, scratchy SFX was denigrating the experience of playing "real" tables, yet Farsight did nothing about it !FOR YEARS! while still collecting money for new content they put up.

Finally they fixed it, right? Well, on the day that patch came, they screwed up the lighting of various tables! It's been years since THAT crazy issue has been festerng unaddressed, and to top it off, another recent patch screwed up the sound again on some tables. Even new tables were released suffering from some of these problems.

So as a genre that depends crucially on the audio/visual experience being at least presented in a semi-competent manner, the game has been hot garbage every single day of its existence, depending on your system.

For that reason, I couldn't care less about playing the coulda/woulda/shoulda game by asking what if some other company got the license long ago. Since no other publisher has been that abusive to any game (that they still propped up to sell new content) for as long as FS, I am not exaggerating when I say I would've welcomed the news that Fisher Price stole the license from them in their attempt to entering the video game business.

At least a new company starting at square one without the dirty after-taste of FS's skanky business decisons is a much better position than suffering with their abominable treatment of the licences for the last few years. By far, FS is the worst publisher of any franchise I've ever experienced after years of gaming, and it's not even close.

I celebrated the day it was announced the Williams and other company tables were not allowed to be tortured under them any more; hopefully the day comes where the remaining licences follow suit and there is at least a chance they'll be picked up by a company that actually tries to get the basics squared away while continually asking for our $$$.

 

[Jamman39]

I just realized, Zen's Fish Tales will probably end up being the most played digital pinball table ever. It will be free so players who only play Zen's fantasy tables are likely to give it a try even if "real" tables aren't their thing. It is very hyped and already considered better than Farsight's version so most people who have only played "real" digital pinball will migrate over to FX3 and try it. It should pass Sorcerer's Lair pretty quickly, but it'll probably take a while before it gets played more than FS's TotAN, but I have to imagine it will happen.

The leaderboards on there are gonna be pretty crazy. I'll be happy if I can get in the top 1000.

 

[Jeff Strong]

Speaking of Sorcerer’s Lair, I fired it up yesterday since it’s the only non-WMS table I own and my god was it painful. The physics feel like the ball is rolling through molasses. Couldn’t even finish one game because it felt so lifeless. I really, really hope they do add the WMS physics to the oldies because the layouts and presentation (both art and sounds) are pretty awesome from what I’ve seen (I own some of the older Marvel and random tables on ios iirc).

 

[mystman12]

I just realized, Zen's Fish Tales will probably end up being the most played digital pinball table ever. It will be free so players who only play Zen's fantasy tables are likely to give it a try even if "real" tables aren't their thing. It is very hyped and already considered better than Farsight's version so most people who have only played "real" digital pinball will migrate over to FX3 and try it. It should pass Sorcerer's Lair pretty quickly, but it'll probably take a while before it gets played more than FS's TotAN, but I have to imagine it will happen.

The leaderboards on there are gonna be pretty crazy. I'll be happy if I can get in the top 1000.

It will definitely become one of the most played, but I don't know if it could ever beat 3D Pinball: Space Cadet!

 

[Jamman39]

Speaker of Sorcerer’s Lair, I fired it up yesterday since it’s the only non-WMS table I own and my god was it painful. The physics feel like the ball is rolling through molasses. Couldn’t even finish one game because it felt so lifeless. I really, really hope they do add the WMS physics to the oldies because the layouts and presentation (both art and sounds) are pretty awesome from what I’ve seen (I own some of the older Marvel and random tables on ios iirc).

Yeah Sorcerer's Lair is not their best work, it beats me why they haven't decided to update the free table to something a little better

 

[Pinballwiz45b]

Yeah Sorcerer's Lair is not their best work, it beats me why they haven't decided to update the free table to something a little better

...soon to be 2 FREE TABLES!

 

[Jeff Strong]

Yeah Sorcerer's Lair is not their best work, it beats me why they haven't decided to update the free table to something a little better

The table doesn’t seem too awful; it was the physics that I couldn’t get into.

 

[Citizen]

I've actually always liked Sorcerer's Lair as a table. I agree the problem is just the really old Zen physics.

 

[wolfson]

The table doesn’t seem too awful; it was the physics that I couldn’t get into.

Jeff , this is my fave of the old tables , I hope they upgrade it , wonderfull !!!

 

[wolfson]

Citizen , yep upgrade it and we`re a step nearer to heaven hehehe !!!

 

[Pinballfan69]

Sorcerer's Lair is one of those tables that could cater to a new player as you don't have to complete the modes to get credit for them. Once you go through all the modes the wizard mode starts and that could be accessible to many that enjoy pinball. I certainly agree that after playing Fish Tales with the new tweaks in physics, sorcerer's lair isn't that enticing. Always loved the table yet with the ball being so heavy and the ease of keeping it in play, it's becoming a table I don't enjoy that much anymore.


I really hope they can add these amazing tweaks to all of their tables. It would make the whole Zen line fresh again. That's something that would bring me to play some of the older tables again.

 

[Gorgias32]

Totally agree, I have always believed that Zen picked a great table to be their free one - I still go back and play Sorcerer's Lair from time to time. It's one of the handful of Zen tables on which I have made it to the wizard mode more than once. It may be a bit too easy, but if you have time then it's really nice to make progress. We need both types of tables.

I also agree it would be amazing if we were able to toggle on the realistic and tournament physics for zen tables and would exponentially add value to the game.

 

[Zaphod77]

Note that sorcerer's lair has had a bit of rebalance in fx3

Rebalance 1) obsidian stones are now cleared upon second completion of wizard mode, not just if you got all of them before finishing.
Rebalance 2) bones mode is no longer so impossible to complete.
Rebalance 3) Bumper to left outlane drains are now saved, at least in single ball play. This one allows
Rebalance 4) no more free ballsaves for locking a ball. this was originally put in because of those bumper to left outlane drains.

They are investigating putting the new engine in old tables as a hard mode option. This ahs to be done on a case by case basis, as old tales are designed around old physics.

 

[Zaphod77]

also they intend to have one more pack this year, and a Whirlwind release schedule for 2019. (this is not a hint, just me being funny)

 

[Jamman39]

Every Zen table has its own unique set of physics parameters and Sorcerer's Lair was built at a time when Zen used a lot of physics trickery to make balls go up ramps and into places that they shouldn't be able to. Most tables from that period in Zen's work have some of this trickery going on.

I think the layout and rules are both fine on Sorcerer's Lair, but that it isn't a very good example of Zen's work because of the physics. Son of Zeus would be a lot better to use as a free table. They've already made it free for a limited time to Zen fans so it wouldn't hurt their bottom line too much to give it away either

 

[Zaphod77]

Any improvement in the main physics will be not received well if it makes the table harder. This table is easy on purpose.

spiderman is the worst example of trickery, where any shot anywhere close to the middle of the upper flipper goes straight up the ramp or around the j j jameson loop. ANY. it's like the post between doesn't even exist

 

[Gorgias32]

Yes, they will definitely need to tweak individual tables for the vacuum ramp stuff. It would be interesting, though, to just enable "classic" physics on some of the older Zen tables without much modification (other than keeping them from crashing). What would the super combo-y tables like World War Hulk or Droids be like if you had to really hit the ramps perfectly to even get up them? What would it be like to have the upper flipper in Spider Man brick into the post between the ramps as often as not?

I think it would be fun to have an option for some of the long-playing tables be able to be set to brutal difficulty, it would make you really think about scoring strategy relative to risk, which is part of what makes competitive pinball fun.