Has anyone done a genuine side by side comparison?

[Citizen]

I'm familiar with the situation and find the claim dubious at best. There's a distinct lack of proof that Black Rose was designed for them or that it ever shipped from the factory with them in any region, unlike with Fish Tales.

If you have a specific thread in mind link it, I'd be happy to see something substantial. But everything I've ever seen on Pinside amounted to "I think," "I heard," "Maybe it was only in Europe" (a guess based purely on European distributor preference for harder machines, rather than on any actual proof), "Mine came with them" (from people who only got their machine in recent years, not new from the factory), and other sorts of generally worthless information.

It seems more like a rumor that has been repeated enough times to muddle the truth, including with repro parts makers who produce "reproduction" black lightnings for BR, which further confuses the issue.

 

[trash80]

I'm familiar with the situation and find the claim dubious at best. There's a distinct lack of proof that Black Rose was designed for them or that it ever shipped from the factory with them in any region, unlike with Fish Tales.

If you have a specific thread in mind link it, I'd be happy to see something substantial. But everything I've ever seen on Pinside amounted to "I think," "I heard," "Maybe it was only in Europe" (a guess based purely on European distributor preference for harder machines, rather than on any actual proof), "Mine came with them" (from people who only got their machine in recent years, not new from the factory), and other sorts of generally worthless information.

It seems more like a rumor that has been repeated enough times to muddle the truth, including with repro parts makers who produce "reproduction" black lightnings for BR, which further confuses the issue.

https://www.ipdb.org/images/313/313f2.jpg

Black Rose was the first to feature the shorter flippers and then the other Fliptronics 2 machines offered them as an option on FT, standard on BSD and I believe as an option on DH. But I've seen plenty of people mod their pins both ways, in fact one of the best playing (but hard) tables I've ever played is a LOTR with lighting flippers installed.

 

[Citizen]

Are there lightning bolts on those? I genuinely can't tell. I see some reddish tint that looks like it could maybe be an outline to the raised bolts, but it doesn't look right (the bolts on lightning flippers zig-zag to the very edges of the flipper).

Here's a picture of a BR lower pf with standard flippers set to the same angle as in the flyer:

Compare the flipper tips to things like the corners of the shoot again box, the bones and the guns. Doesn't look like the flyer flippers are an 1/8th inch shorter to me. What do you think?

It's also worth considering that the flyer image is sourced from IPDB, yet the Database makes no mention of the flippers being shorter, or optionally being shorter. If you look up games like FT, BSD and DW on the Database, it mentions the lightning flippers.

 

[trash80]

Are there lightning bolts on those? I genuinely can't tell. I see some reddish tint that looks like it could maybe be an outline to the raised bolts, but it doesn't look right (the bolts on lightning flippers zig-zag to the very edges of the flipper).

Here's a picture of a BR lower pf with standard flippers set to the same angle as in the flyer:

Compare the flipper tips to things like the corners of the shoot again box, the bones and the guns. Doesn't look like the flyer flippers are an 1/8th inch shorter to me. What do you think?

It's also worth considering that the flyer image is sourced from IPDB, yet the Database makes no mention of the flippers being shorter, or optionally being shorter. If you look up games like FT, BSD and DW on the Database, it mentions the lightning flippers.

The difference is about 3mm in overall length, not just the tip being shorter. Compare the flyer to the Zen table. They are identical.

Comparing the image you posted in photoshop with the flyer, yes, your photo has larger flippers installed.

If I look up the part numbers for the flippers they are identical to the FT, BSD and DW flippers except for being black.

20-9734-7 flipper euro w/shaft black 3

 

[Citizen]

I see, that's interesting. Guess I was wrong then. It's good to finally have a better answer than I've been able to find anywhere else, thanks.

 

[trash80]

I see, that's interesting. Guess I was wrong then. It's good to finally have a better answer than I've been able to find anywhere else, thanks.

Next time you are at an expo, see if you can hold a euro (lightning) and a normal flipper. They really are not that different. I think the less weight and slight change in rake/slope are what actually makes them more difficult (in a fun way) than the minuscule additional center drain area.

 

[MBeeching]

Well, I just upgraded AFM to 4* on Android, and, wow, the Pro Physics are brutal. I didn't even clear a billion points and I was playing for about half an hour. It really sucks when the kickout from Stroke Of Luck can go STDM about 20% of the time.

Then switched back to the Daily Challenges (I got the last part I needed for AFM on the Basic), and drew ToM for the Advanced challenge. The ball was all floaty by comparison.

I didn't think there was a way to use the "Zen"-style physics on mobile. There's only "Arcade" (aka "Classic Single Player") and "Pro".

I've not had the opportunity to try Pro Physics on Android yet, though I have my doubts they'll be as good as Classic Arcade & Tournament on PC. If you like them it would be well worth spending 150 coins to unlock the feature, then you can use them on every current & future table at Grade 2 (Arcade Mode).

 

[1adam12]

A bit off topic, but if someone puts out a table with the option of banana flippers, I'm in. Does anyone else remember those?

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

 

[Citizen]

I think they'd have to be putting out tables for about 20 years before they got to Time Warp and Disco Fever.

 

[1adam12]

I think they'd have to be putting out tables for about 20 years before they got to Time Warp and Disco Fever.

I didn't realize they were such a rarity. I remember the flippers more than the tables I saw them on. I guess that says something.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

 

[Citizen]

I didn't realize they were such a rarity. I remember the flippers more than the tables I saw them on. I guess that says something.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

Even more telling is that in spite of the fact that those two tables were specifically designed to use bananas, Steve Ritchie once stated that Williams' sales figures showed that the tables still sold better with normal flippers.

Not to say that there isn't some novel fun to be had putting in a few games on a banana flipper game. It's certainly a unique experience.

 

[1adam12]

Even more telling is that in spite of the fact that those two tables were specifically designed to use bananas, Steve Ritchie once stated that Williams' sales figures showed that the tables still sold better with normal flippers.

Not to say that there isn't some novel fun to be had putting in a few games on a banana flipper game. It's certainly a unique experience.

No doubt! Learning to use those things takes a while, but learning how to hit shots on the same side of the field as the ball is pretty satisfying.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk