Higher pitched music/sounds?

[Pinballwiz45b]

I wondered if this has been covered already, but I might as well ask. Any reason why the music is higher pitched than the originals on some games, such as TotAN, Scared Stiff, ST:TNG, Champion Pub, CC, AFM, and CV? (TotAN is used as an example)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0MnK5vn_mU

 

[jaredmorgs]

Could this have something to do with playback speed of the audio.

For example, I know sometimes when you playback audio through bluetooth there can sometimes be a pitch-shift resulting from the bluetooth audio stream playing back faster and slower.

 

[netizen]

A difference in sample rate can do this as well.

I notice it a lot on MB, between the 'Droid and PC versions there is significant difference

 

[Pinballwiz45b]

Yeah, MB has it as well. Is there a possible fix for this or not?

 

[netizen]

Yeah, MB has it as well. Is there a possible fix for this or not?

it depends on the root cause, imo.

 

[Pinballwiz45b]

AFM is fixed (at least that's what I think) Unfortunately, ST:TNG isn't.

http://www.twitch.tv/psnation/b/481274212

 

[Shaneus]

Holy crap, I never realised that it was so much slower and deeper on TotAN IRL. Colour me surprised!

I also blame the OP for pointing this out... if they hadn't said anything, I'd have never known any better

 

[starck]

Sample rate, compression, etc. all lead to a lack of dynamic range in the sound on TPA. Have posted several examples before if you're interested in comparing the real thing vs. what TPA is.

It has bummed me out, and I wish they would address or at least acknowledge the issue. This isn't all about graphics.

 

[MonkeyGrass]

FS really needs an audio engineer. Along with a UI designer who came up sometime in the last decade, and not the 80's.

One day, I hope they will realize that a great virtual pinball experience is about more than table art and ball physics. Until then, enjoy lossy, badly resampled imitations of the real thing. Understandable on the mobile platforms, but not on console or PC. They are re-using old assets to crank tables out, instead of re-doing them with full resolution art and sound for this generation - BIG mistake. And there is the root of the problem, compounded by FS programmers not fully understanding audio compression and codecs. It's gone on for so long, it's just "accepted practice" at this point.

So this is what we get. I'm a pinball lover, not so much a "gamer". I will be spending the approximately $600 it would cost to upgrade to a PS4 and the "new" (I use that term lightly) TPA on another real pinball machine. It's simply not worth it when I can get an actual table for ~ the same cost as a PS4 + accessories + software. It's just not that big of an "upgrade" for me to justify the expense. I think they may find this out the hard way, especially with not making the PS4 launch in time. Time will tell.

 

[jaredmorgs]

FS really needs an audio engineer. Along with a UI designer who came up sometime in the last decade, and not the 80's.

Norman is the sound/audio engineer.

I'm not sure who is responsible for the UI, but improvements are in development. I think many team members are involved with this initiative from what I've gleaned.

One day, I hope they will realize that a great virtual pinball experience is about more than table art and ball physics. Until then, enjoy lossy, badly resampled imitations of the real thing. Understandable on the mobile platforms, but not on console or PC.

Hopefully these threads will highlight that the way a table looks, plays, *and* sounds is important. Regardless of platform.

They are re-using old assets to crank tables out, instead of re-doing them with full resolution art and sound for this generation - BIG mistake.

I respect your opinion. I don't believe it is correct. Got some proof to go along with this?

And there is the root of the problem, compounded by FS programmers not fully understanding audio compression and codecs. It's gone on for so long, it's just "accepted practice" at this point.

So all Farsight programmers need to understand audio stuff? Sweeping generalizations aren't really productive to debate, correct?

So this is what we get. I'm a pinball lover, not so much a "gamer". I will be spending the approximately $600 it would cost to upgrade to a PS4 and the "new" (I use that term lightly) TPA on another real pinball machine. It's simply not worth it when I can get an actual table for ~ the same cost as a PS4 + accessories + software. It's just not that big of an "upgrade" for me to justify the expense. I think they may find this out the hard way, especially with not making the PS4 launch in time. Time will tell.

Good for you. That's the beauty of choice we have as consumers.

I love real pinball too. I can afford $5 to indulge my passion. Not $600. Especially not in Australia, where pinball is hard to find.

 

[Baron Rubik]

They are re-using old assets to crank tables out, instead of re-doing them with full resolution art and sound for this generation - BIG mistake.

I respect your opinion. I don't believe it is correct. Got some proof to go along with this?

Ryan Routon admitted Farsight reused old Art assets for Victory from previous release (see link below), and I'd speculate if done once, it's been done several times and probably with sound too.
http://digitalpinballfans.com/showthread.php?p=115810

@Jared - you commented here
http://digitalpinballfans.com/showthread.php?p=115841

 

[MonkeyGrass]

Ryan Routon admitted Farsight reused old Art assets for Victory from previous release (see link below), and I'd speculate if done once, it's been done several times and probably with sound too.
http://digitalpinballfans.com/showthread.php?p=115810

@Jared - you commented here
http://digitalpinballfans.com/showthread.php?p=115841

Thanks Baron. I didn't think this was "news" considering we've talked about it in other threads here. Particularly these GHOF collection tables that we've been seeing the last few months.

If they actually have a dedicated audio engineer, and he's responsible for the low-quality audio - then I certainly stand by my statement that this is indeed "how it's done" at FS. Absolutely no reason the opening theme song and menu music should sound like an MP3 from 12 years ago. Not on a console. Mobile, perhaps - you have to cut file size and compress wherever you can, and most mobile devices don't have decent speakers that would even show an improvement, if one were to be made. My issue is with the console versions, which sound mostly terrible.

 

[MonkeyGrass]

That's the beauty of choice we have as consumers.

I love real pinball too. I can afford $5 to indulge my passion. Not $600. Especially not in Australia, where pinball is hard to find.

Well that's pretty much exactly my point. If FS wants folks to kick out the cash to upgrade to the PC or PS4 versions, then they need to convince their customers that it is, in fact, worth spending the money to upgrade. Listen, I've already bought most of these tables THREE TIMES. PS3, Android, and GPHOF/WPHOF Discs. I've put my money where my mouth is, I've referred this game to nearly a dozen others who have also bought it. But spending another $5-600, to play the same tables I've already bought 3 times over already (all with the same bugs and issues that were never resolved along the way) is just insane to me. It's not $5 per table, if you want to get into the PS4 or PC. It's the cost of hardware + base game + table packs. That adds up.

I get it, there are always going to be certain things in digital recreation that aren't going to be "the same" as the original. The audio should *NOT* be one of those things. I'm much more forgiving of things like flipper response and physics, because that stuff is HARD to get right, and takes months of testing and programming to get dialed in. Audio - not so much. It's simply a matter of getting the mixing and compression (if needed) dialed in at the highest possible bit-rate. It's not *that* difficult, in the grand scheme of things. So I have much less patience and willingness to deal with those types of flaws, than the ones that arise from digitizing a very complex physical system.

 

[Deltaechoe]

Just be glad that they aren't refusing the old sound assets from the old Microsoft pinball included in older versions of Windows like a ton of visual pinball tables do

 

[jaredmorgs]

@Baron, yep you're right. In that thread, I did openly groan that folks that are on the "assets reused" bandwagon will be jumping up and down saying "told you, told you, told you". But it is also worth noting that in the case of Victory, the old assets aren't going to stay like that. In the pre-podcast chatter, folks with more insight than me confirmed that Victory was in pieces, so Farsight would not have gone to the trouble of dismantling the playfield if they didn't intend scanning it again.

I would like to see a response from the Farsight guys about this particular case, but frankly I don't expect it. Business decisions need to be made to meet deadlines. Sad but true...

@MonkeyGrass The original tone of your post just sounded ranty, and something about it just prompted me to write what I did, challenging you to clarify. You did clarify, very well. I get your position very clearly now, as I'm sure others do. Your position is indeed valid. Thanks for taking the time to elaborate on your thoughts.

 

[Jeff Strong]

FS really needs an audio engineer. Along with a UI designer who came up sometime in the last decade, and not the 80's.

It's perfectly fine to critique the product, but please refrain from jabbing at Farsight's staff. It's disrespectful. If we want them to come on the boards and read the feedback, then we need to be courteous.

 

[Pinballwiz45b]

Any progress on this right now, anyone over at Farsight? Have you guys discovered the issue yet?

 

[MonkeyGrass]

It's perfectly fine to critique the product, but please refrain from jabbing at Farsight's staff. It's disrespectful. If we want them to come on the boards and read the feedback, then we need to be courteous.

I apologize. That was a bit over the top. It does come from a place of love, believe it or not!

 

[starck]

Any progress on this right now, anyone over at Farsight? Have you guys discovered the issue yet?

Bump...anyone at farsight...any response/comment/anything re: the two threads about audio quality posted this past month in this section?

 

[Pinballwiz45b]

Got a response from Badger; they're looking into the issue. Depends all on priority.