How to nudge a real table?

[Zombie Aladdin]

Until I got back into pinball last year, I thought nudging was cheating. As a result, I have never learned to react by nudging (but I have since learned that it's a valid and common technique). Hence, the pinball I've played since then have largely been nudge-free. The number of times I've saved a ball by nudging can be counted on one hand between all the virtual and real pinball I've played.

Nudging a virtual table is simple. You just look at the controls for the game and act when appropriate. It's all based on timing and analyzing the situation at hand. This is something I can learn to do, and I'm trying to condition myself to nudge when I know a ball is going down the middle instead of staring in horror like a deer in headlights.

When I'm up to a physical machine however, I don't know how to grip the table and apply the appropriate amount of force to do it right. Reacting too late is something I can work on; these I cannot. Would anyone be able to give me any advice on how to properly nudge a table?

A problem that onlookers who know about nudging find whenever I play is that they think I'm nudging in the opposite direction than what I should be. I know that if I want a ball to go right, I nudge left. If I want a ball to go left, I nudge right. I know that. The problem is that after shoving the machine in some direction, the machine's bounce back winds up stronger and more extended than the original shove I make, and that's what people wind up seeing. What is going on here? Does anyone know what I'm doing wrong?

 

[PoSTedUP]

sounds like you are letting the table spring back in the opposite direction too much. try to keep it sturdier if they legs are more wobbly. or if you are tipping it too much. like, once you nudge in a direction, put half the pressure back into the other direction immediately after you nudge; half the pressure*, maybe less, maybe more depending on how hard you nudge or what the condition/weight of the table is. just experiment different levels of nudging.

after you get the hang of it and the table, youll notice that you will pick up on knowing when the ball is going to drain not only from going straight down the middle, but also comming down on an angle. and be able to prevent that as well, as well from being suspicious on the bounce it takes towards the out lane and feeling it is going to drain.

 

[stevevt]

A few tips:

1) 90% of the time, you should be nudging forward rather than left or right. The idea is that you want to use a post or rubber in the game to impart extra energy on the ball in a way that changes where the ball is going. For example, when the ball is right at an inlane/outlane divider, a sharp nudge can send the ball out of this area entirely.

2) You should be able to grip the machine close to where your hands already are for normal play, but you might have to slide them back slightly to get a nice grip on the corner.

3) If you have the patience, money, and inclination, I recommend taking a weekend or two and focusing exclusively on nudging and no other skills. No drop catches, live catches, dead bounces, post passes, tap passes, etc. Avoiding these other skills will let you maximize the focus on learning, but it will probably also maximize the time the ball spends in danger.

4) Practice sharp (but not overly aggressive) nudging and see how close you can come to tilting or getting a tilt warning, depending on the machine, without actually going over the line. When you've dialed in the amount you can move the machine in safety, the only other thing to work on would be timing your nudging (and I guess judging when a situation is going to require a nudge and getting ready to do it).

5) You've already found onlookers willing to comment on your nudging. Identify someone who looks like they know what their doing and try to get specific advice.

6) Practice, practice, practice.

 

[PoSTedUP]

A few tips:

1) 90% of the time, you should be nudging forward rather than left or right. The idea is that you want to use a post or rubber in the game to impart extra energy on the ball in a way that changes where the ball is going. For example, when the ball is right at an inlane/outlane divider, a sharp nudge can send the ball out of this area entirely.

2) You should be able to grip the machine close to where your hands already are for normal play, but you might have to slide them back slightly to get a nice grip on the corner.

3) If you have the patience, money, and inclination, I recommend taking a weekend or two and focusing exclusively on nudging and no other skills. No drop catches, live catches, dead bounces, post passes, tap passes, etc. Avoiding these other skills will let you maximize the focus on learning, but it will probably also maximize the time the ball spends in danger.

4) Practice sharp (but not overly aggressive) nudging and see how close you can come to tilting or getting a tilt warning, depending on the machine, without actually going over the line. When you've dialed in the amount you can move the machine in safety, the only other thing to work on would be timing your nudging (and I guess judging when a situation is going to require a nudge and getting ready to do it).

5) You've already found onlookers willing to comment on your nudging. Identify someone who looks like they know what their doing and try to get specific advice.

6) Practice, practice, practice.

this^. especially #5; it would be your best bet for someone to show you/ watch someone who looks to do it right. dont be afraid to ask (just not when it looks like they are really focused on their game XD) ive noticed that the pinball community is an outstanding bunch .

 

[Mayuh]

Also, you should be able to see what the ball will be doing (at least most of the time) after its next bounce/contact. Like one bounce before... I was able to predict that after some 12 months of playing real tables.
I'm nudging forward 95% of the time. Either with both hands simultaneously or left/right hand only. With my palm at the corner(s) of the lockbar. To give more energy to the ball. I'm currently trying to avoid unnecessary nudges and have a hard time doing so
I hardly slap the machine on the side, except to avoid a certain contact with slings or so from a feed. (Funhouse, whirlwind scoops for example).
Anyway nudging takes time to master...

 

[Zombie Aladdin]

Thanks for the advice. I'll try a nudge-focused practice sometime, though preferably at a place that doesn't get a lot of foot traffic. And a machine that's not right up against a wall. I feel like not nudging is the single biggest barrier to me not being able to consistently play well.

sounds like you are letting the table spring back in the opposite direction too much. try to keep it sturdier if they legs are more wobbly. or if you are tipping it too much. like, once you nudge in a direction, put half the pressure back into the other direction immediately after you nudge; half the pressure*, maybe less, maybe more depending on how hard you nudge or what the condition/weight of the table is. just experiment different levels of nudging.

I can already figure when the ball is going down the middle (though less so for the outlanes), and I know the issue there is to react with a nudge, which is something I am triyng to work on. My most common reaction is still to panic though, which means no attempt at nudging.

A few tips:

1) 90% of the time, you should be nudging forward rather than left or right. The idea is that you want to use a post or rubber in the game to impart extra energy on the ball in a way that changes where the ball is going. For example, when the ball is right at an inlane/outlane divider, a sharp nudge can send the ball out of this area entirely.

2) You should be able to grip the machine close to where your hands already are for normal play, but you might have to slide them back slightly to get a nice grip on the corner.

3) If you have the patience, money, and inclination, I recommend taking a weekend or two and focusing exclusively on nudging and no other skills. No drop catches, live catches, dead bounces, post passes, tap passes, etc. Avoiding these other skills will let you maximize the focus on learning, but it will probably also maximize the time the ball spends in danger.

4) Practice sharp (but not overly aggressive) nudging and see how close you can come to tilting or getting a tilt warning, depending on the machine, without actually going over the line. When you've dialed in the amount you can move the machine in safety, the only other thing to work on would be timing your nudging (and I guess judging when a situation is going to require a nudge and getting ready to do it).

5) You've already found onlookers willing to comment on your nudging. Identify someone who looks like they know what their doing and try to get specific advice.

6) Practice, practice, practice.

For #1, when is that done? Is that right before the ball reaches the rubber? What should be done in a game where the inlane/outlane dividers don't have rubbers, like Ripley's Believe It Or Not! or RollerCoasrter Tycoon? Thanks for explaining what a forward nudge is for though. That I didn't understand. I always figured a nudge was to roll a ball slightly off its normal trajectory. (I have to say I at least find it a bit amusing that I can do all of those techniques listed in #3 but still cnanot nudge to save my life. I imagine proper nudging is something learned before at least some of those techniques.)

For #5, I have asked, but they give me really vague advice. I think they have trouble describing it properly themselves.

 

[stevevt]

For #1, when is that done? Is that right before the ball reaches the rubber? What should be done in a game where the inlane/outlane dividers don't have rubbers, like Ripley's Believe It Or Not! or RollerCoasrter Tycoon? Thanks for explaining what a forward nudge is for though. That I didn't understand. I always figured a nudge was to roll a ball slightly off its normal trajectory. (I have to say I at least find it a bit amusing that I can do all of those techniques listed in #3 but still cnanot nudge to save my life. I imagine proper nudging is something learned before at least some of those techniques.)

For #5, I have asked, but they give me really vague advice. I think they have trouble describing it properly themselves.

1) The timing is generally right when the ball is hitting the divider. For games with no rubber on the dividers, you might have some luck nudging sideways when the ball is on the wood of the cabinet. If it's a right outlane situation, you'd nudge left to move the game into the ball.

5) Maybe try filiming yourself and either having someone else analyze, or trying to do it yourself. Note the kinds of mistakes and situations: Too early, too late, no nudge when nudge was needed, etc. Keep in mind that there's no doubt you'll get better at nudging simply by playing pinball; all of these tips are really just about accelerating the learning by focusing on specific skills.

I found this video on youtube with some tips and slow-motion footage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrffIXbeqxc
No doubt there are others. In general, you'll probably benefit by watching the tutorials, game play, and tournament coverage on papa.org.

 

[superballs]

Thanks for the advice. I'll try a nudge-focused practice sometime, though preferably at a place that doesn't get a lot of foot traffic. And a machine that's not right up against a wall. I feel like not nudging is the single biggest barrier to me not being able to consistently play well.



I can already figure when the ball is going down the middle (though less so for the outlanes), and I know the issue there is to react with a nudge, which is something I am triyng to work on. My most common reaction is still to panic though, which means no attempt at nudging.



For #1, when is that done? Is that right before the ball reaches the rubber? What should be done in a game where the inlane/outlane dividers don't have rubbers, like Ripley's Believe It Or Not! or RollerCoasrter Tycoon? Thanks for explaining what a forward nudge is for though. That I didn't understand. I always figured a nudge was to roll a ball slightly off its normal trajectory. (I have to say I at least find it a bit amusing that I can do all of those techniques listed in #3 but still cnanot nudge to save my life. I imagine proper nudging is something learned before at least some of those techniques.)

For #5, I have asked, but they give me really vague advice. I think they have trouble describing it properly themselves.

Don't be shy to pull the machine away from the wall if it's too close.

 

[Buzz1126]

I like the way stevevt laid it out. Nudge forward, meeting the ball with the lane divider. You can also change the trajectory of the ball and/or distance when you nudge as it falls towards a bumper. And when the ball gets in a bumper forest, your point total can increase. I used to have callouses in the heels of my palms nudging real machines. But once you get the hang of nudging, people will be asking YOU how to do it.

 

[Captain B. Zarre]

I don't do it much because it hurts my hands, I only do it when I need to like on Iron Man and Fish Tales when the ball exits the orbits.

 

[Zombie Aladdin]

1) The timing is generally right when the ball is hitting the divider. For games with no rubber on the dividers, you might have some luck nudging sideways when the ball is on the wood of the cabinet. If it's a right outlane situation, you'd nudge left to move the game into the ball.

5) Maybe try filiming yourself and either having someone else analyze, or trying to do it yourself. Note the kinds of mistakes and situations: Too early, too late, no nudge when nudge was needed, etc. Keep in mind that there's no doubt you'll get better at nudging simply by playing pinball; all of these tips are really just about accelerating the learning by focusing on specific skills.

I found this video on youtube with some tips and slow-motion footage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrffIXbeqxc
No doubt there are others. In general, you'll probably benefit by watching the tutorials, game play, and tournament coverage on papa.org.

All right. Thanks again for the advice. I'll definitely look at that video. I don't have any camera equipment myself though, let alone one that can make an overhead view. I have been watching other people play though, both online and for real and it's always been a mystery to me--I always figured I wasn't gripping the table correctly, or I am being too gentle.

Don't be shy to pull the machine away from the wall if it's too close.

I'm not going to scratch the walls or other machines though--I'm referring to cases where the back or the sides of the machine is actually TOUCHING a wall or another machine. I see this happening a lot. Incidentally, the floor at the legs at these places don't get quite as damaged, so I'm sure it was an intentional anti-nudge thing.

 

[speedfreakz]

Old skool pinball guy here. Take a 9/16 or cresent wrench in and loosen the bolts on the front legs by a couple of turns makes it easier to nudge.

 

[Zombie Aladdin]

I don't think the people who run the arcades, movie theaters, bowling alleys, and such would appreciate me doing that...

 

[speedfreakz]

I don't think the people who run the arcades, movie theaters, bowling alleys, and such would appreciate me doing that...

As some who had owned those machines in those places for 30 years, I don't mind if they are a little lose
Just a half turn or two is more then enough.

 

[DrainoBraino]

I'm not going to scratch the walls or other machines though--I'm referring to cases where the back or the sides of the machine is actually TOUCHING a wall or another machine. I see this happening a lot. Incidentally, the floor at the legs at these places don't get quite as damaged, so I'm sure it was an intentional anti-nudge thing.

A machine should never be touching a wall or other machine. Gotta have some room there or its gonna get bashed. Definitely pull it away from the wall.

 

[Zombie Aladdin]

Nope, they shoudn't. But the owners of these places want to conserve space and/or discourage nudging, so that's how it works. Family Amusement Corporation, for instance, has ten machines at its arcade (it's actually a distributor, and the arcade seems to be a side thing). Each pinball machine is literally 3 millimeters away from each other and right up against the video games behind it, and this was before the Mustang machine was added in. There is no space to pull it from the wall either, as there are some rather popular DDR and Japanese fighting game machines behind it that, even on weekday afternoons, gets a few people playing. Doesn't stop some people from nudging the machines, bumping them up against the video games in the back, other pinball machines, and other patrons though.

I should most likely practice nudging at Pinz Bowling Center. The machines there are roughly one foot away from each other and about six inches away from the wall behind it. The legs are also rather loose compared to some other ones I've tried it on.

I tried nudging Mary Shelley's Frankenstein at Lake Forest Ice Palace. I could barely move the machine a millimeter, hardly saw any movement, and I got a warning. Looks like the machines there have their legs screwed on extra-tight with very sensitive tilt bobs.

 

[superballs]

Must have pretty thin fingers to play those machines.

I found a great instructional document on nudging tables:

 

[Kolchak357]

I've heard stories of arcades bolting pins in place. I've never seen it though.
Not sure where I heard that, might have even been somewhere in this forum.

 

[Zombie Aladdin]

Must have pretty thin fingers to play those machines.

Nah, the backboxes are wider than the cabinet, so there's always enough room provided for your hands. The problem comes from the backbox bumping up against stuff. It's a good thing most are modern Sterns, whose electronics to let the game function are mostly in the cabinet itself.

That image is what I'm afraid of doing sometimes...

 

[stevevt]

It's a good thing most are modern Sterns, whose electronics to let the game function are mostly in the cabinet itself.