Hypothetically How Much To Start A Pinball Arcade?

[shutyertrap]

Wow, a whopping four pinball machines. Unless it was right in my neighborhood, I wouldn’t even bother.

 

[wilbers]

Its 4 to start with. Think the idea is that if its successful they'll use profits to buy more of the pricier machines later - will be one to have another look at in a few months and see what happens. Its about 2 hours from me, but I have the big disadvantage that there are no commercially run pinball machines anywhere in Cumbria (or at least none that I know of). If I happened to be going near there for anything else (unlikely, but not impossible) I'd visit it then, otherwise it is indeed too far.

 

[shutyertrap]

That’s my point of wanting a true pinball arcade to go to. If that’s the focus, then you know it’ll be well looked after. I guarantee those 4 pins they have are going to fall by the wayside because of the constant attention they need in comparison to all the arcade cabs. They won’t be cleaned, bulbs will burn out, rubber hardened, bum flippers or drop targets never fixed. Because of that people won’t play, which will make the owners think its a lack of interest in pinball, not the condition of the machines.

I’ve been to arcades like this, pointed out what needs to be fixed, only to revisit a few months later and see the exact same machines only worse now. Contrast that with Pinball Hall of Fame in Vegas, a non profit venture itself, where if there’s a problem with a machine they’ll just turn it off until they can fix it, or pull it from the floor completely. I don’t make it to Vegas often, but I never fail to visit PHoF if I do. Very excited to see what becomes of the new location they are building on the Strip.

 

[shutyertrap]

I just finished reading a book by Peter Hook, bass player from New Order, called "The Hacienda: How Not To Run A Club" which was even more fascinating to me considering this very thread. Now I'm not saying a nightclub from the mid 80's has much in common with a pinball arcade, but the very act of finding a space, building it out, and then managing it really hit home. It's a fascinating read in that every mistake that could be made, they made. It grew into a wildly popular hot spot and was open for 15 years, yet it never turned enough of a profit to pay off their debts. Most of that was because of boneheaded decisions before ever opening the doors (signing a 25 year lease when they could have just bought the land, having the local brewery help with financing which meant never getting a discount on beer thus not being able to turn a profit on any sold, being open 7 days a week in the first year despite never attracting more than 40 people Sunday-Wednesday, and of course gross mismanagement of money).

There were other decisions design wise that cost them a fortune. They had this wonderful brass railing that looked fantastic, until sweaty dancing patrons put their hands all over it, thus tarnishing the shine. It would then take someone an hour to clean it back up each night. They spent loads on particular color choices for paint that once the club was filled and lights were going, nobody ever saw. So many of the mistakes that were made were because not a single person behind The Hacienda had ever run a club before, they had only ever attended them. That of course is exactly me with pinball.

I still think I could make it work though!

 

[Striker]

Get a Big Lebowski pin in it and I’ll come running.

Every successful arcade nowadays seems to keep the doors open by seving alcohol. The Cidercade in Dallas is a good example. Most pins are in good shape.

Pinball Pete’s in Ann Arbor seems to be the exception. It has a great location and tradition. The new pins are well-maintained and set up at tournament play or close to it. Four quarters for a game and it goes fast. Some older pins are in bad shape. Addams Family would record a drain when the ball is still in play. On South Park the ball would always get stuck on Kenny. Weak flippers on Indiana Jones made the pin unplayable. But most customers didn’t play pinball. They mostly played air hockey or shoot-em-ups. Or Galaga, the undisputed arcade moneymaker of all time.

 

[yespage]

That’s my point of wanting a true pinball arcade to go to. If that’s the focus, then you know it’ll be well looked after. I guarantee those 4 pins they have are going to fall by the wayside because of the constant attention they need in comparison to all the arcade cabs. They won’t be cleaned, bulbs will burn out, rubber hardened, bum flippers or drop targets never fixed. Because of that people won’t play, which will make the owners think its a lack of interest in pinball, not the condition of the machines.

I’ve been to arcades like this, pointed out what needs to be fixed, only to revisit a few months later and see the exact same machines only worse now. Contrast that with Pinball Hall of Fame in Vegas, a non profit venture itself, where if there’s a problem with a machine they’ll just turn it off until they can fix it, or pull it from the floor completely. I don’t make it to Vegas often, but I never fail to visit PHoF if I do. Very excited to see what becomes of the new location they are building on the Strip.

The very local place to us started slow and now they have expanded the building I think doubled (or better) their pinball machines. They have issues on a couple tables, CV with no boom in the balloon, I don't think Monopoly is centered right as the ball keeps getting stuck, and the number of working lights on Hulk is sad, but the vast majority of their tables, it is working well.

I think the critical thing for Pinball place would be having a well reimbursed mechanic on-call.

 

[yespage]

It occurred to me that a bakery/cafe could be an even better idea as people are willing to pay absurd amounts of money for coffee and pastries. Granted, cooking pastries requires actual baker skills, though croissants and pies could be pretty easy to manage and require fewer ingredients (relative to a menu of other foods), just salt, butter, flour (which keep easily) and filling, and then the coffee. This also transitions the place from mostly adult friendly to kid friendly!

Though probably wouldn't be as big a night-life scene as a bar, but a potential gain is that the croissants would allow for very late hours as prep for that is late night stuff anyway.

 

[Citizen]

I think keeping kids away from your machines by default is actually one of the perks of a barcade, honestly.

With a bakecade (a registered trademark of Citizen, Inc.), now you've got little kids AND they've got sticky fingers.

Also, don't people who sit around bakeries/cafés/coffee shops usually do so to relax a little in a calming environment? Not sure that crowd would want pinball machine cacophony right next to them.

 

[Fungi]

I'm just automatically turned off at the thought of sticky icing on flipper buttons.

 

[shutyertrap]

I keep coming back to this thought; I’ve driven 350 miles to visit the PHoF in Vegas and driven 90 minutes to visit the Museum of Pinball in Banning, CA, both being nothing more than pinball arcades. I’ve yet to drive 20 miles to visit the nearest bar/pinball venue. Make of that what you will.

 

[Fungi]

I keep coming back to this thought; I’ve driven 350 miles to visit the PHoF in Vegas and driven 90 minutes to visit the Museum of Pinball in Banning, CA, both being nothing more than pinball arcades. I’ve yet to drive 20 miles to visit the nearest bar/pinball venue. Make of that what you will.

Don't do it! Go read your first post again. That should wake you back up.

 

[Citizen]

I keep coming back to this thought; I’ve driven 350 miles to visit the PHoF in Vegas and driven 90 minutes to visit the Museum of Pinball in Banning, CA, both being nothing more than pinball arcades. I’ve yet to drive 20 miles to visit the nearest bar/pinball venue. Make of that what you will.

So what you're saying is you need to start a pinball museum.

 

[shutyertrap]

So what you're saying is you need to start a pinball museum.

Absolutely! Accepting donations now.

It’s funny though, the dude that started the Pacific Pinball Museum started with 2 machines. He said he picked up a few more and ran out of space in the house. So he moved them to a location that he then opened to the public and called it a ‘museum’. Soon people were donating machines to him in various states of disrepair, he’d fix ‘em and add them to the collection. He now has a giant warehouse of machines as well as what’s in the actual museum location.

 

[wilbers]

Not the only place that started small.

Back of a computer repair shop to 2 floors in a mill, and still growing. https://www.arcadeclub.co.uk/history/

In common with the Pacific Pinball Museum, also good at repairs just that most of it isn't pinball.

Maybe that is the safe way, no massive loans for machines involved, repair machines yourself (just need to get the ability to so first).

 

[wilbers]

As this thread all started out as a hypothetical, how about running virtual machines instead - it seems an incredibly niche thing, but someone is in fact developing it - you can fix virtual pinball machines (or at least you can if you wait until next year). Not convinced there is a market for it, but time will tell.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1068570/Flipper_Mechanic/

 

[HighFive]

Funny i was thinking about this, how cool would it be to open a pinball in my area. Im Montreal, there is not much to play pinball. There is two major place, one in downtown, which is an arcade, that got 7 pinballs, and the other one, 12 pinballs. I went yesterday night to the this barcade North Star Pinball, wanted to play some Black Knight SoR, and seeing how many people were in, a Saturday Night at 8PM, made me feel bad.

First time i went there was Wednesday at 6pm and two customer where in the place, i expect on a Saturday Night, 8 PM, on Saint-Laurent street which is a big street in Montreal, well the place could be more crowded. Nope. 4 customers, plus me and my friend. We stayed there for like 1 hour till 9PM, didnt see people moving in, and when we finish playing, we were alone in the bar. Like you own a bar on St-Laurent, you want customers to pay your bills. Yeah drinks at 7-10$ a pop can make you do some money, but you need more than that. I place seem to run for a long time, it got a rotation of their pinballs , which seem to be an indication they are doing money somewhere. But i didnt see it .

I just think that pinball got its crowd, but i feel like there are a dozen of us only. Perhaps some area have more fans, like im seeing more people playing at the arcade downtown, but what make people play i think are the arcade machine. More people are just sticking to arcade, and i can easily play a pinball there too, but there is more people. So the idea of just having a pinball place, i think you better make some market research first, and i think its popularity is just sticking to its fan base, getting new people in is where the challenge is. Funny thing, is that what draw me into going to play real pinball, its digital representation. So maybe the job need to get done there first to get more people aboard. It need to attract a new audience, not just an old one.

 

[shutyertrap]

So the idea of just having a pinball place, i think you better make some market research first, and i think its popularity is just sticking to its fan base, getting new people in is where the challenge is. Funny thing, is that what draw me into going to play real pinball, its digital representation. So maybe the job need to get done there first to get more people aboard. It need to attract a new audience, not just an old one.

I read a thing where they were saying the newfound appeal of pinball to specifically Millennials is that they have grown up with so much being 'digital', that interacting with something mechanical or analog like pinball is huge. So the real trick is getting the awareness out there of where to find these machines. When I was visiting Portland Oregon, I popped into a couple of bar arcades that had large pinball collections mixed with video games, and even mid week they drew a crowd. It's a city known for having a huge collection of machines on site, while in a tightly packed square mile concentration. The Los Angeles area has a lot on site, but the area is so spread out it seems you never find any unless driving specifically to a location you know has some. Portland I just walked around and found them.

So yes, market research would be huge, but the region is important too. The resurgence of pinball is not because of the 'pinball crowd', but because new blood is joining into it. The trick is letting them know it's there to begin with.

 

[HighFive]

I read a thing where they were saying the newfound appeal of pinball to specifically Millennials is that they have grown up with so much being 'digital', that interacting with something mechanical or analog like pinball is huge. So the real trick is getting the awareness out there of where to find these machines. When I was visiting Portland Oregon, I popped into a couple of bar arcades that had large pinball collections mixed with video games, and even mid week they drew a crowd. It's a city known for having a huge collection of machines on site, while in a tightly packed square mile concentration. The Los Angeles area has a lot on site, but the area is so spread out it seems you never find any unless driving specifically to a location you know has some. Portland I just walked around and found them.

So yes, market research would be huge, but the region is important too. The resurgence of pinball is not because of the 'pinball crowd', but because new blood is joining into it. The trick is letting them know it's there to begin with.

One area i think its missing for making pinball grow again is publicity. The fan know to go to pinside, etc to get the pinball news. But without really knowing, BN SoR didnt got any publicity. Pinball just doesnt have publicity at all. Perhaps targeting gaming news site, facebook adds, etc, could do some good for visibility.

I know Gary Stern seem not appeal by digital, but a crazy idea i was thinking, like having a new pinball develop exclusively on a digital plaform, it could be like Stern own program, available on PC, console, tablet, etc. Or even look at Stadia and see where it goes if you dont really want to sell it and have it stream. Attract fans to this pinball app. Exclusive, ´Invasion From Mars’ develop by George Gomez. Application is free, but its a pay to play application ( or perhaps a monthly sub since im not sure console would dig a pay to play platform ) . After some sort of exclusivity period, real pinball is released, and the application tells you where you can get to play it. Going to play it can give you some reward by connecting the app to the pinball. Get a replay score as example, get a day of play digitally, reach X score, get you to play for a longer time, etc.

But its a bit of a dream im thinking, do Stern want to invest in any way to get more publicity? I think there is some sort of revival of pinball, and it need to get people in. Place near my area, well, they dont do their publicity, you need to search for pinball montreal, its how i found it. Perhaps Stern should target some publicity stuff in the sell of a machine, so it get known.

Perhaps yeah im my area in Montreal, it might be less popular, as example, there is 2 places im thinking about going, 2-3 hour of drive to Ottawa, called Ottawa Pinball Arcade and there is House of Targ. They got tons of machine there, and scouting the area also seem to indicate that there is way more place there than in Montreal. Scouting the region of Quebec, out of freakin nowhere, there is an area in Moncton where there is 4 places that got 5+ machines there. But it wasent always that way in Montreal, but did the market simply shift for digital entertainment? I dont know. But my inside feeling tells me if its done right, it could grow back.

 

[shutyertrap]

Is it wrong that I read your posts with a French accent since you’re in Montreal?

 

[HighFive]

Your not wrong .