I had a chance to play the actual Cirqus Voltaire table yesterday

[BrentMpls]

Yesterday at the annual State Fair, I had the chance to play the actual Cirqus Voltaire table!

They had four tables, three of which were working. The Simpsons, Pirates of the Caribbean, Cirqus Voltaire, and Creature from the Black Lagoon, which sadly was out of order (I would have loved to play that most of all!)

I played Simpsons for a while - there was a annoying part of the table where if you shoot it in the garage there was a ~20 second wait for the ball to release.

But enough about that! This is about Cirqus Voltaire!

Some impressions:
-The bumpers on the left and right just above the flippers were very interactive, much more so than the Pinball Arcade version - the slightest touch would send the ball flying off with great velocity.

-The ball in the circle-cage that the pinball can bounce off of in the lower left play field seemed to be a much bigger part of the 'real' game than the pinball arcade version, it was hit much more often and cause the pinball to behave very unpredictably, where as in the pinball arcade version it doesn't seem to be hit as much, and the interaction isn't as wild as with the real table.

-The lighting! Oh my gosh, the lights! They were so bright and involved. The green neon strip to the right side of the table in particular was so bright it was amazing. The pinball arcade version you barley notice that it lights up with each ball launch. I think a 'dark' room version of each table would be a fun idea, something that really brings out the neon lighting as it was a big part of the game and to be honest I didn't notice it at all until I knew to look for it now (I played some pb arcade once I got home to check it out for a fresh comparison).

Here are some pictures, and a short video.

 

[Sean DonCarlos]

-The lighting! Oh my gosh, the lights! They were so bright and involved. The green neon strip to the right side of the table in particular was so bright it was amazing. The pinball arcade version you barley notice that it lights up with each ball launch. I think a 'dark' room version of each table would be a fun idea, something that really brings out the neon lighting as it was a big part of the game and to be honest I didn't notice it at all until I knew to look for it now (I played some pb arcade once I got home to check it out for a fresh comparison).

The mobile devices do not support the dynamic lighting needed to do the neon justice. Play the PS3 or XBox 360 version of Cirqus Voltaire and then compare to the physical table. It's not quite the same as the real neon, but it's the closest that a virtual table is likely to get.

 

[mmmagnetic]

Indeed, the console version of CV is quite stunning and the best showcase for lighting in the TPA engine yet. Other tables don´t come even close (yet).

 

[Kolchak357]

I also played a real CV last week and the outlanes were much more forgiving than the TPA ios version. And yes the light show is great. Probably my least played table on TPA. Maybe if I had the console versions, which look very nice.

 

[BrentMpls]

Maybe if I had the console versions, which look very nice.

Hey there Night Stalker!

If this is the case, I hope they get the iOS versions up to snuff. Retina screens are regarded as some of the best screens available, having better lighting on them would really add to the experience.

 

[BonzoGonzo]

it isnt the screen thats the problem, its the processor

 

[BrentMpls]

it isnt the screen thats the problem, its the processor

Do you have any links to information on that? iPad 3 can run some pretty impressive 1st party games.

 

[superballs]

Do you have any links to information on that? iPad 3 can run some pretty impressive 1st party games.

Sure they are impressive when you think about the fact that they are running on a mobile device or a tablet, but the CPU/GPU just aren't up to creating what the XBOX/PS3 can pump out.

As it stands, the iOS versions are impressive but they won't be up to snuff with the consoles.

 

[The Wolfman]

Let's just hope this lighting will be possible on the next generation iPads. (iPad 2 even seems to be faster than his younger brother, because of the CPU usage of the retina display.)

BTW: I love the real CV. I'm glad I found one 2 weeks ago in a bar near where I live.

 

[BrentMpls]

Sure they are impressive when you think about the fact that they are running on a mobile device or a tablet, but the CPU/GPU just aren't up to creating what the XBOX/PS3 can pump out.

As it stands, the iOS versions are impressive but they won't be up to snuff with the consoles.

As with the previous posters who have claimed this, I'm curious what is your source for this information is?

The iPad 3 is extremely powerful, it actually has MORE memory and resolution (not that those are the only factors to consider for performance) than the xbox 360 and ps3 - keep in mind that those machines are 8 years old now.

If it is a limitation with the hardware - or a need to keep a hardcap on performance so that older generations of hardware (iPhone 3, iPad 1) can run the same application - then I understand. But unless Farsight confirms something, it seems like a lot of people are making some big assumptions here.

I have a hard time believing limited lighting that I experience in Pinball Arcade is due to the The iPhone 4S and iPad3's hardware.

I am interested in seeing the console versions now that their is a claim that their lighting is superior, although buying all the tables again isn't too appealing.

 

[BrentMpls]

Let's just hope this lighting will be possible on the next generation iPads. (iPad 2 even seems to be faster than his younger brother, because of the CPU usage of the retina display.)

The iPad 3 is far superior to the iPad 2 in GPU, and slightly in CPU. Assuming it is a hardware limitation (again, I don't know what the source is for that claim). Also, it may not help if the next generation of iPads are faster still if they have to keep the application capped for older hardware. I have a hard time believing that the iPad 3 can't support better lighting - lets assume that it can, and that the iPad 2 cannot. Perhaps they have to keep the poor lighting in for that it can play on both platforms. Or maybe not - maybe the software can detect which platform it is on, and run different graphics/code. I don't know. I think input from Farsight is needed here before further speculation/assumption is made.

BTW: I love the real CV. I'm glad I found one 2 weeks ago in a bar near where I live.

It was a lot of fun, I'd love to have access on a regular basis close to home (or better yet, in it!)

 

[Kolchak357]

I'm on the original iPad. To be honest, I'm surprised TPA is even playable on the iPad 1. I don't mean for my earlier post to come off as as totally negative. I'm happy with what I have. I just meant that CV doesn't translate as well as some other tables.

 

[BrentMpls]

I'm on the original iPad. To be honest, I'm surprised TPA is even playable on the iPad 1. I don't mean for my earlier post to come off as as totally negative. I'm happy with what I have. I just meant that CV doesn't translate as well as some other tables.

Hey I think it's cool you took a break from stalking the night to post!

I think this thread has generated several questions from the observation that the lighting is amazing on a physical table.

1) Why isn't the lighting more prominent in the iOS version? It seems from feedback that the Xbox 360 and PS3 versions have better lighting.

2) Is hardware limitation the reason the iOS versions have poorer lighting?

3) If it is hardware limitation - is it because the software needs to run on all platforms (iPad 1, 2, 3, iPhone 3, 3S, 4, 4S, etc)
-or-
can no version of the hardware support the better lighting?

If some hardware can - can the code detect this so newer hardware can enjoy better a experience?

And perhaps more q's still depending on those answers

 

[BonzoGonzo]

while i dont have any cold facts/numbers to show you, you can't really believe that ipad3 is on the same level of performance as an xbox360/ps3?

you do know that its not only the main cpu, there is also the gpu and memory and the speed of data that those three send to eachother, that makes a big difference in the overall performance?

not to mention the energy consumption for such things...

its not that its not possible to do a mobile ps3 with a 1080 screen, its just that it'd run out of juice in about 3 secs... ok, 6 seconds

 

[Sinistar]

while i dont have any cold facts/numbers to show you, you can't really believe that ipad3 is on the same level of performance as an xbox360/ps3?

you do know that its not only the main cpu, there is also the gpu and memory and the speed of data that those three send to eachother, that makes a big difference in the overall performance?

not to mention the energy consumption for such things...

its not that its not possible to do a mobile ps3 with a 1080 screen, its just that it'd run out of juice in about 3 secs... ok, 6 seconds

This and also factor in the ROM emulation that is complex . The pinball ROM is being run in the game , it thinks the videogame is a real table and has actual hardware and lighting , it takes alot out of the processor to perform that way. The same processor running complex effects and shaders for the game , then add in all the other elements like simulated ball physics , and this simple pinball game is not very simple . The PS Vita has a Quad core processor it can probably get away with more complex stuff , but FarSight is from what i can see coming close enough with it's mobile versions , and if it's working don't fix it.

 

[BonzoGonzo]

yeah, some games for nes emulators still have problems and cause severe slowdowns... even some zx spectrum ones at that

 

[ridcully]

The iPad 3 is indeed a little bit slower on GPU-Redering. The iPad 3 is faster than the iPad 2, however, it has to do four times the calculations, since the screen resolution is four times higher.

 

[BrentMpls]

Hi BonzoGonzo,

The initial point of me making this post was to simply have some fun by posting some pictures and listing a few general impressions from playing the real table in the real live physical world. One of those observations was how much more interactive the 'real' game was due to the lighting.

It seems that several folks, yourself included, are making the assumption that the mobile iOS devices are just too limited in hardware to perform with better lighting. I doubt that is the case, but it is possible. It seems to me that it is more of a artistic choice, but perhaps performance does weigh into it, either because of the way the game is designed, or because the game needs to work on ALL mobile devices, not just the latest and greatest, a problem that the xbox and ps3 do not have to worry about.

It is not my intention to argue about things neither of us know enough to argue about - I simply think it is worth mentioning, and if FarSight studios wants to comment on it, then that is great.

Check out this video for a early 'alpha' video test that ProPinball is working on for their iOS game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kdun_RdmuZQ

It looks like a 'darkroom' style effect (which I suggested in my first post) where the lighting is very interactive is possible based off of this video alone.

while i dont have any cold facts/numbers to show you, you can't really believe that ipad3 is on the same level of performance as an xbox360/ps3?

I never said it was.

you do know that its not only the main cpu, there is also the gpu and memory and the speed of data that those three send to eachother, that makes a big difference in the overall performance?

Yes I do know that, and mention it in my post if you go back and read it fully.

not to mention the energy consumption for such things...

its not that its not possible to do a mobile ps3 with a 1080 screen, its just that it'd run out of juice in about 3 secs... ok, 6 seconds

I think you are very confused here, and making some very wild assumptions, but I'll leave it at that.

Thanks for responding and I hope I helped you understand what I'm trying to say.

 

[Jeff Strong]

.



Check out this video for a early 'alpha' video test that ProPinball is working on for their iOS game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kdun_RdmuZQ

It looks like a 'darkroom' style effect (which I suggested in my first post) where the lighting is very interactive is possible based off of this video alone.

You do realize that uses prerendered graphics, right?

 

[BonzoGonzo]

hi brentmpls,

never said you said those things

there was no confusion on my part, just disagreement with your reasoning

glad to have a civilised argument

bottom line: sadly your mobile is not strong enough to run tpa as good as the consoles (for all the reason stated above), as tpa does not use prerended but on-the-fly gfx