Is there anyone that can dumb down the licensing deals Farsight has?

[TNT]

so basically a licenses for dummies thread.

So it sounds like Farsight has varying licenses with Williams, Stern, Bally, Capcom? Some licenses with more freedom than others? Is there a "main" license? It almost sounds like that is Williams.

Just curious. Maybe I am the only one confused about what tables are probable, possibly, unlikely, or impossible.

 

[Richard B]

FS does not have a Capcom license, but Williams, Bally, Gottleib, and Stern (including Data East and Sega Pinball) all have more or less unrestricted licenses to tables in their catalog. Though they are held to certain obligations, such as having to feature them in their factory state (no mods), the big issue are tables that have outside licenses, be it a fully licensed table like TZ or STTNG, or just featuring outside music (RS, PZ), or a celebrity's likeness and/or voice (Elvira). FS must secure these on their own, in addition to the base table. Sometimes they do this with apparent ease, but other times, the licenses are expensive, or the copyright holder(s) refuse to even deal with FS, which was the reason it took so long for TAF, and is the reason we've not seen any Disney-owned properties (POTC, TRON, any of the several Marvel tables).

 

[invitro]

Maybe I am the only one confused about what tables are probable, possibly, unlikely, or impossible.

State what you're confused about, and maybe some of us can help .

Williams and Bally are the same company, and I'd be shocked if they had different licenses.

I don't think there's any such thing as a main license, but maybe I'm misunderstanding.

The pinball company licenses don't affect which tables are made, unless one runs out like when the six Gottlieb in a row happened. What matters is whether licenses from non-pinball companies are needed. You probably know that, remember that list I made of "lesser" movie/tv licenses I made in another of your threads, recently.

Things other than licenses are of high importance also. How popular a table was (production numbers), how good it is (IPDB and Pinside ratings), whether it's a DMD, whether it's solid state or EM, if it has a Stern MPU (newer than Whitestar?) that can't be emulated well on slower phones (I think I got that right), if it's Capcom which I think has the same issues as the newer Stern MPU's.

You may want to check out the contest I made to predict Season 5:
http://digitalpinballfans.com/showt...-Predict-Season-5-amp-Table-Packs-39-amp-40!/
I made it to see if anyone here could really predict what new tables would be. There was much, much more consensus in the picks than I expected.

I could go on... but it's better if you pick out something specific to ask about, I think?

 

[TNT]

Interesting. Well just those two posts have helped a lot. Did not know that Bally and Williams are the same company. So outside licenses often complicate things.

Good stuff.

So with the SAM system Farsight has been able to emulate most of it except on slower phones, and that is holding it back? If I remember right in the latest Blahcade Bobby said they may have found some answers for that?

 

[EldarOfSuburbia]

Did not know that Bally and Williams are the same company.

They were separate companies but merged sometime in the 80s. The manufacturer of those tables is actually Midway (the name of the merged company), but they continued to use the Williams and Bally brands for alternating tables. I don't think there was any real rhyme or reason as to why particular tables were which, though I think some designers were "exclusively" Williams (I'm thinking Steve Ritchie, who worked for Williams - so maybe he had enough clout to make sure all his tables came out under the Williams brand).

 

[Espy]

They were separate companies but merged sometime in the 80s. The manufacturer of those tables is actually Midway (the name of the merged company), but they continued to use the Williams and Bally brands for alternating tables. I don't think there was any real rhyme or reason as to why particular tables were which, though I think some designers were "exclusively" Williams (I'm thinking Steve Ritchie, who worked for Williams - so maybe he had enough clout to make sure all his tables came out under the Williams brand).

I would like some insight into why that was as well, actually. I could never figure out what made one table a Williams and one a Bally. As a brand, Bally always struck me as a little bit more... edgy than Williams? But there are exceptions either way.

 

[vikingerik]

http://www.pinrepair.com/wms/willy15.htm

Question: How do you decide which game is manufactured under the Bally label or which one under the Williams label?

Answer: This has been one of the industry's most closely guarded secrets. Unfortunately Pat Lawlor let his guard down at the last Pinball Expo, and revealed the precise formula: "First we make a Williams. Then we make a Bally. Then we make a Williams. Then we make a Bally..."

 

[Fungi]

http://www.pinrepair.com/wms/willy15.htm

Question: How do you decide which game is manufactured under the Bally label or which one under the Williams label?

Answer: This has been one of the industry's most closely guarded secrets. Unfortunately Pat Lawlor let his guard down at the last Pinball Expo, and revealed the precise formula: "First we make a Williams. Then we make a Bally. Then we make a Williams. Then we make a Bally..."

That's freakin' hilarious!

 

[mpad]

Truly hilarious. Uncle Willy, the legendary VP author. Didn't know he had this comedian talent. Too bad he is taking a creative break atm.
He even postet here once or twice...

 

[Rudy Yagov]

They were separate companies but merged sometime in the 80s. The manufacturer of those tables is actually Midway (the name of the merged company), but they continued to use the Williams and Bally brands for alternating tables. I don't think there was any real rhyme or reason as to why particular tables were which, though I think some designers were "exclusively" Williams (I'm thinking Steve Ritchie, who worked for Williams - so maybe he had enough clout to make sure all his tables came out under the Williams brand).

Not exactly. Midway took control of the Williams video game properties while Williams owned the Bally/Midway pinball division. Williams still exists today while Midway is kaput.

 

[EldarOfSuburbia]

Not exactly. Midway took control of the Williams video game properties while Williams owned the Bally/Midway pinball division. Williams still exists today while Midway is kaput.

I somehow knew it was a little more complicated that that.

Yeah, I know Williams is still around, they make slot machines. Can't say I frequent casinos so I've never seen on of 'em.

 

[Fungi]

Yeah, I know Williams is still around, they make slot machines. Can't say I frequent casinos so I've never seen on of 'em.

The Pat Lawlor slot machines have extra reels on the sides and the Steve Ritchie ones are really really fast.

 

[invitro]

Truly hilarious. Uncle Willy, the legendary VP author. Didn't know he had this comedian talent. Too bad he is taking a creative break atm.
He even postet here once or twice...

Ted Estes posted here? And he made VP tables? Which ones?

 

[Gorgar]

I somehow knew it was a little more complicated that that.

Yeah, I know Williams is still around, they make slot machines. Can't say I frequent casinos so I've never seen on of 'em.

I was in Atlantic City a few months ago and I saw a Black Knight slot machine. I thought it was cool, but didn't play it because I hate slot machines.

 

[neglectoid]

The Pat Lawlor slot machines have extra reels on the sides and the Steve Ritchie ones are really really fast.

hehe. post of the month.

 

[Kratos3]

Interesting. Well just those two posts have helped a lot. Did not know that Bally and Williams are the same company. So outside licenses often complicate things.

Good stuff.

So with the SAM system Farsight has been able to emulate most of it except on slower phones, and that is holding it back? If I remember right in the latest Blahcade Bobby said they may have found some answers for that?

The answer is basically that older operating systems and devices won't get the updates at some point, I believe.

 

[Kratos3]

FS does not have a Capcom license, but Williams, Bally, Gottleib, and Stern (including Data East and Sega Pinball) all have more or less unrestricted licenses to tables in their catalog. Though they are held to certain obligations, such as having to feature them in their factory state (no mods), the big issue are tables that have outside licenses, be it a fully licensed table like TZ or STTNG, or just featuring outside music (RS, PZ), or a celebrity's likeness and/or voice (Elvira). FS must secure these on their own, in addition to the base table. Sometimes they do this with apparent ease, but other times, the licenses are expensive, or the copyright holder(s) refuse to even deal with FS, which was the reason it took so long for TAF, and is the reason we've not seen any Disney-owned properties (POTC, TRON, any of the several Marvel tables).

I thought that they do have a Capcom license, but haven't emulated the system yet, and won't until they're going to release a few tables from them....

 

[invitro]

The answer is basically that older operating systems and devices won't get the updates at some point, I believe.

Or maybe they'll raise the hardware requirements, and so not support the weaker systems?

 

[switch3flip]

Farsight also has some kind of licensing agreement with Sony Pictures which makes a couple movie themed pinball machines possible future releases. We already have Dracula and Starship Troopers released and Mary Shelley's Frankenstein has been "leaked" in various TPA files on Android and PC. Last Action Hero as been namedropped by Farsight (jokingly or seriously?) and Johnny Mnemonic is pretty highly rated Williams pin so would be surprising if it's not in s5 or s6.


http://digitalpinballfans.com/showthread.php/8746-TPA-licensing-agreement-with-Sony-Pictures

 

[TNT]

This is all very good info.