Keep your chin up Farsight!

[DopedToInfinity]

I don't claim to know the in's-and-outs of what's going on with Microsoft, and I'm not a fanboy on either side. I realise you have made a few mistakes & so have Microsoft.

After reading about the problems other developers have had with MS, I believe they can be a bit unfair.

Just keep plugging at it, and I'm sure in a few months time things will get better. As disappointed as I was to not get new tables for my Xbox this month, I'm sure they will become available eventually, and I can live with with that. (It still sucks though).

I'm sure in six months to a years time your Xbox DLC will be released like clockwork, it's just those initial hurdles MS and yourselves need to get over. Once you both have a satisfactory blueprint to work from I'm sure it will get easier.

 

[Laurence Merraine]

Well said.

 

[bavelb]

hear hear

also: 10 chars.

 

[Ark Malmeida]

Agreed. Although I'm hoping against hope that MS agrees to let the update go through and have this issue fixed on the next update like Farsight is asking (slim chance I know, but here's hoping!).

 

[Mark Miwurdz]

"After reading about the problems other developers have had with MS"

To the TC. Can you point me in the direction of this info?

 

[Brandon Debes]

"After reading about the problems other developers have had with MS"

To the TC. Can you point me in the direction of this info?

Here you go

 

[Sinistar]

*in my best Artie Johnson mock German accent * verrryy eentirsting ......
(those of you not old enough he was in the LAUGH IN show of the 1960's )

 

[Ozzpot]

"After reading about the problems other developers have had with MS"

To the TC. Can you point me in the direction of this info?

If you hang out on any developer's forums for long enough, you'll hear them complaining about the certification process. I have encountered this hundreds of times, I can't possibly list them all here.

Since there are some very cynical people on here who claim that Microsoft is purposely "sabotaging" FarSight in order to keep Pinball FX2 (which they publish) on top, I remind you that Pinball FX2 itself was delayed 2 weeks due to certification issues.

Here is a link to the devs citing those issues:

https://forum.zenstudios.com/showth...d-back-now-October-27&highlight=certification

Also, there was a delay of a few weeks to some of the DLC that the devs cited being due to "factors beyond our control". I believe it was later revealed to be certification failure, although I can't find the exact source of that confirmation right now. I used to be avery regular member of those forums so I remember that being the case. Here is the original discussion:

https://forum.zenstudios.com/showthread.php?2997-How-much-longer&highlight=certification

 

[Nik Barbour]

Nicely put Doped!

Fingers crossed for the end of the week - if not, it'll be worth waiting for!

Was stood in front of wall mounted TV last night (just the right distance away - so cabinet looked real life sized) playing Ripleys - Awesome! Other device types don't come close for me.

 

[ND3G]

The "bug" (if you can even call it that) MS is complaining about is so minor (not to mention unlikely) it is not even remotely worth holding up the release over.

 

[Ozzpot]

The "bug" (if you can even call it that) MS is complaining about is so minor (not to mention unlikely) it is not even remotely worth holding up the release over.

Yes, supposedly if you save a table to memory stick, and then remove that memory stick while the table is loading, the game hangs. Well, I know for a fact that is the case for many games. I know this because I have a friend who regularly plays games at my house. He brings his profile, and saves his games etc, to memory stick. Often he removes his memory stick at the wrong time and the game hangs or does something else unexpected. Of course it does. It's not like it bricks the 360 or corrupts the save file or something bad like that. It's nothing. Apparently the bug was even present in previous submissions, but it was not pulled up on that before.

 

[Fuzzini]

Yes, supposedly if you save a table to memory stick, and then remove that memory stick while the table is loading, the game hangs. Well, I know for a fact that is the case for many games. I know this because I have a friend who regularly plays games at my house. He brings his profile, and saves his games etc, to memory stick. Often he removes his memory stick at the wrong time and the game hangs or does something else unexpected. Of course it does. It's not like it bricks the 360 or corrupts the save file or something bad like that. It's nothing. Apparently the bug was even present in previous submissions, but it was not pulled up on that before.

Seems like a nonsense excuse to me; it's along the same lines as saying if you tip your glass while it's full, water will spill.

Next they'll be saying they're refusing certification because if you unplug your Xbox while TPA is loading a table, the system will shut off. I mean, seriously...whatever happened to bare minimums? Is there no such thing as user accountability anymore?

 

[bavelb]

Apparantly what should happen is the same as when a controller loses connection: the game pauses and a message should pop up.

I just hope that if FS applies this fix the message is along the lines of "Hey genius, what do you think would happen if you pull out that thing in your paws?" " It puts the lotion in the basket or it gets the hose" .

 

[Ozzpot]

Seems like a nonsense excuse to me; it's along the same lines as saying if you tip your glass while it's full, water will spill.

Next they'll be saying they're refusing certification because if you unplug your Xbox while TPA is loading a table, the system will shut off. I mean, seriously...whatever happened to bare minimums? Is there no such thing as user accountability anymore?

I know. It seems to me the same as "if you turn off your machine while it's saving it might corrupt the game file". Well, yeah, that is the case with every game ever released isn't it. Almost every game warns of that when you boot it up and we all know not to do it. Is that a bug? If it is it seems like a more serious bug than they have flagged in this case, since it causes permanent damage, if only to data.

I think they're being very strict, very harsh, but I refuse to call it underhand behaviour or sabotage or anything like that. Surely if they didn't want the competition they wouldn't have allowed the game onto XBLA in the first place.

 

[BonzoGonzo]

Apparantly what should happen is the same as when a controller loses connection: the game pauses and a message should pop up.

if i recall correctly, when this happens on ps3 (controller loses connection becouse of low battery) the game doesnt pause and the ball drains...

so yeah, micro$oft have a ruleset you need to comply to, if you want to release stuff on their platform... however silly it may seem

 

[ClaudeHenrySmoot]

I agree... people need to cut Farsight some slack. Seems like a lot of folks aren't able to sit back and look at the big picture here. I haven't played regular pinball in 15 years. FIF-TEEN FREAKING YEARS. That's the last time I had daily access to tables like MM, TOTAN, TOM, etc. Since then, between life's priorities and the dissapearance of arcades/pinball in general, I've played maybe 20 actual games of pinball at various random locations since 1997.

For Farsight to release just the first 4 tables with great graphics and realistic physics at that price point... I'm not sure I can ask anymore than that. To know we'll be getting dozens of great tables via DLC is something I never would have expected or even would have hoped for.

We all know what the alternatives are if Farsight were to bail on us:

- VP/PinMAME
- Old copies of PHOF
- Suck it up and spend thousands on a real table

I'm frustrated with the delays, thankful for what we have, and looking forward to more tables when the time comes.

 

[Brandon Debes]

wisdom

Hear, hear!

 

[Richard B]

I think they're being very strict, very harsh, but I refuse to call it underhand behaviour or sabotage or anything like that. Surely if they didn't want the competition they wouldn't have allowed the game onto XBLA in the first place.

I don't share your confidence after this last rejection. Very, very few people ever used a memory card instead of a hard drive, and even fewer use it now - new XBoxes don't even support them. The bug also requires an extremely stupid action from the user to occur. Fez had a more serious bug, and they let them put their patch back online. This is MS's way of saying we're never going to approve you - we'll always find something wrong.

 

[Sean DonCarlos]

I don't share your confidence after this last rejection. Very, very few people ever used a memory card instead of a hard drive, and even fewer use it now - new XBoxes don't even support them. The bug also requires an extremely stupid action from the user to occur. Fez had a more serious bug, and they let them put their patch back online. This is MS's way of saying we're never going to approve you - we'll always find something wrong.

If Microsoft wanted to kill TPA for some reason, it would have done so with the initial game. What this looks like to me is half bureaucratic rigidity at the expense of common sense, and half incompetence in Microsoft's own testing (as they didn't find this bug until the third time around).

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

 

[Brian Clark]

New Xboxes lack the memory card slot, but now allow for the devices like USB memory sticks to be used instead. I still think the reason for the delay is lame, though.