Leaderboards NEED to be wiped on PS4 & other platforms possibly...

[Crepello55012]

Why cant they get rid of scores that are literally impossible? For example the top all time score on Big Shot ends with a 1.This has to be hacked as any genuine score would have to end in a zero.

 

[tandigab]

Look Gorgar's leaderboard.

Beeboy78: 99,830,781
Tarek O.: 99,830,780

Beeboy78 must be a cheater/troll that's obvious.
You cannot achieve point ending with 1.
He just added 1 point to Tarek's result to be on the first place.
I would ban Beeboy78 if I were an admin at Farsight.

 

[The-Man-In-Black]

You're new to the forum (welcome) so it's understandable that you are not familiar with discussions that were exactly like this 4 years ago. So let me break it down.

I've been playing pinball for about 40 years, and own every table on TPA, Zen Pinball, the original Pinball HOF, etc. While I don't have every trophy out there because some of the tables are out of my skill range, I have a vast majority of them. I know how pinball works, and I know how emulation works.

<Bunch of stuff snipped>

TL;Dr version is that they were using a bunch of exploits that existed due to imperfect emulation of the tables. The exploits have since been patched out. I hesitate to call their scores "legitimate", as they were exploiting bugs and imperfections in the game emulation, but at the same time, they definitely weren't cheating either. Keep in mind that in most other places, scores earned under these conditions would not be considered legitimate. Even if you do want to consider the scores fully legitimate (and in that case, we'll have to agree to disagree), they still should be removed from the leaderboards as the scores were earned at a time when certain game bugs and imperfections still existed in the game's code, and the table physics was different. Since the bugs have been largely worked out and the table physics has changed, the scores should still be removed for those reasons alone.

As for the keyboard, as Pinballwiz45b about it. He swears by it and a lot has to do with getting a precise nudge in exactly the direction you want every time rather than hoping your thumb bumped the analogue stick properly. There's also no delay with a wired keyboard as opposed to a wireless controller. A lot of console players have to deal with their TVs having a slight lag too, as opposed to PC monitors usually having none.

Ok, I could see that argument. I don't notice enough of a difference to matter, but I'll concede and leave that opinion up to people who are far more skilled than myself.

The main reason I am vouching for these certain individuals I mentioned though is because they proved themselves years ago. They posted tutorials, videos, gave pointers, interacted with the forum. They helped FarSight identify people that truly were hacking the game and posting bogus scores, by recognizing certain combinations in scores that simply were impossible. They also discovered bugs that were inherent to the ROMs themselves by scoring so high, beyond what anyone could do on a real table, that the game would essentially break. Imagine playing one game for over 7 hours only to have it crash on you because of a certain combination of hits. They discovered how to avoid the roll over bug in Creature that otherwise would wipe your score (had that happen myself). These guys were just exceptional at identifying a variety of factors that created certain conditions, not by cheating but by being hyper observant.

The reason they hold the top spots is because they'd devote hours upon hours on a table as soon as it was released, post an absurd score, and pretty much crush everyone else's aspirations of even trying. Imagine thinking you are good at shooting 3's only to have Steph Curry hop onto the court before you and just drill 20 in a row without missing. You'd question if you should take up some other sport.

Then in those cases, move them into their own "Hall of Fame" section (pun semi-intended). Give them a "Special Thanks" leaderboard or mention them in the credits. I will agree if they voluntarily put that much work into helping Farsight improve the game over the years and really do have that much skill (which I don't question), they deserve it.

Giving them their own "Special Thanks" leaderboard would serve several purposes.

1) It would allow Farsight to recognize their accomplishments both in their skill at pinball and their help improving the game.
2) It would get scores that are no longer achievable due to the current state of the game off the regular leaderboards and put everyone back on an even footing.
3) It would mean that the current crop of top scores can be viewed in their proper context vs. looking like absurdly hacked scores posted by cheaters.

You do have to admit.....from a casual player's point of view, it's easy to question the legitimacy of their scores. You have the same 2-3 people. They have the top scores on an overwhelming majority of the tables. Their scores in many cases are orders of magnitude above the norms for the table, even by skilled players' standards. And they're playing on a platform that is the most easily hackable/moddable format in gaming today. The fact that those scores most likely cannot be duplicated today because the exploits they used have been patched out goes a long way towards making the argument that their scores aren't legitimate.

If Steph Curry hopped onto the court and drilled those 20 in a row from the foul line instead of the 3 point line and just said "Hey, when I did it, shots from here counted as 3 pointers", it would look a lot less impressive. While I don't want to discount their legitimate skills (which I will admit are likely far ahead of my own), the fact that they posted those scores under what is effectively a different set of rules and game physics that do not exist today puts a really big, red asterisk next to their accomplishments. The scores, IMO, should be taken down and moved to their own leaderboard to recognize their contributions to the game. If they're really that skilled, they should have no problems regaining the top spots playing under the same conditions as everyone else.

 

[shutyertrap]

Well this is my point entirely for wiping the boards annually! Because as the tables exist today, they are still not perfect, still could use some finessing. You can't just eliminate the top scores, you have to eliminate all scores by everyone that were achieved under those same conditions. While my high score in RBION isn't chart topping (2 billion or so I think) I did it under the prior tuning and can't easily get there now. And that was on the PS3, not PC. When things like the flipper physics were introduced, leaderboards should have been reset. Twilight Zone just got worked on, Monster Bash is currently being worked on, so the boards should reflect that. You can't question the legitimacy of scores when they were playing under the same conditions available to everybody then, same as if they posted a high score today only for a new version of TPA to come out tomorrow. The trolls and hackers are kinda obvious, as tandigab pointed out in the above post.

My point in mentioning what players do to help FarSight out is not for them to deserve special recognition, but to point out that a hacker or troll wouldn't, and more to the point probably doesn't even know to identify all the quirks and rules. There are a ton of people on this forum that do just that but aren't as skilled in actual play. I can tell you exactly how to get a massive score in Creature, but executing it is a whole other task.

Yes their scores are on a completely different scale than your average 'great' player. Like I said before, they approach it differently, using select shots to safely build a score and it is a painfully dull way to play pinball. If you want an example of the type of conversations we used to have about tables, check out http://www.digitalpinballfans.com/showthread.php/1895-CFTBL-Tactics-and-Strategies That's a very short thread, but you'll see what I mean.

 

[Byte]

All you'd have to do is call it the Legacy Leaderboards and leave then "open" for Legacy Systems (e.g. PS3/VITA). Current platforms that get Legacy status can be moved to the Legacy Systems leaderboard as part of the final planned patch/update, so while not being supported anymore, leaderboards (in it's current incarnation) will always work on them.

As a thank-you, maybe the Top-3 or so for every table on December 31, 2018 at 23:59:59.9999 can get a special, one-time, exclusive "Legacy Champion" ball (design TBD) for the platform(s) they scored their score(s) on.

Starting January 1st, 2019, start the Yearly leaderboards, which can be re-designed to include e.g. a datetime stamp, total time played, etc. Since it's a reboot, everything can be redesigned. Yearly leaderboards should be archived at the end of each year, and maybe the top-3 per table can get a Yearly Champion ball (design TBD but of course with 2019, 2020, etc. on it).

 

[Tann]

He swears by it and a lot has to do with getting a precise nudge in exactly the direction you want every time rather than hoping your thumb bumped the analogue stick properly.

Well... on PC, it's possible to calibrate an analogue stick, in order to not get a tilt even if the stick is pushed all the way.

TPA has a simple 2-layers nudge (at least on PS3, I guess it's the same on PC): one soft (push approximately halfway) and one strong (push all the way). Several soft nudges won't induce a tilt warning.

On PS3, I play like this: pushing gently the right stick all the time, so I almost control the ball the way I want. But sometimes, I push it too far (because the zone between a soft and hard nudge is tight) and I get a tilt warning or a tilt.

On PC, as there are tools to calibrate a controller analogue stick, it's possible to constantly nudge softly even if the stick is pushed all the way.