Marriage between Farsight and Heighway? Not very likely

[karl]

The lead game designer for Heighway Pinball, Dave Sanders, *****-slapped The pinball arcade, hard and brutally on Twitter yesterday. (I believe he is also a member of this forum)

Eight Ball De Luxe was the target of his wrath, in particular.

For the record, he is not saying anything that a lot of others haven't said before, but he is the lead game designer of a pinball company and I just wonder if he should choose his words a little more carefully. Is it just me who feel that he might be going a little over the line here?

He has got some valid points and I agree that all of the things he has a problem with could be better, but why does he take to such extreme words and anger about it?

I guess I am spoiled because I very seldom play anything other than steam, and it is by far the best version. (sounded like he was playing on ios mainly)

I have no problem with suggestions to Farsight for making it better. Constructive Criticism or pointers on how they can make it better should always be welcome. But why all the trash talk? It sounded like he had an agenda. He probably does not, though. He is a straight talker, who usually says what is on his mind, with no sugar on top. I like that about him, but this time he went pretty far. Forums are one thing, but I feel that using twitter is another thing, especially when you play a vital part in the industry yourself.

He then praised Visual pinball, and this could be some of the reason. Many VP people love to talk about all the things Visual pinball gets right, and Farsight does not.


I do not even know why I say all this because most of his points are valid.

Do I want the ball to be heavier? Yes
Do I want a little ball spin? Yes
Could the drop-target behavior be better? Yes
Is the solinoids overpowerd. oh, yes

But I see no reason to get so worked up about it.

If you count out Pro-pinball, not even one of the hundreds of pinball simulators on IOS gets even close to the physics of Farsight. Is it perfect, though? Far from it

Again, it is the words used on a big, public place like twitter, by a well respected person in both the digial and real pinball world that got me to write this.

Did he go to far? Or is this ok? Thoughts from other members, please

Here are some of the quotes that I am talking about: I put in a comment at the end of every quote
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"Farsight's version of Eight Ball Deluxe is the last straw, off the iPad it goes. Plays like a dead frog with a car battery up its arse." (funny allegory but very harsh)

"No sense of weight or gravity, no proper target hit surfaces, no bounce to any rubbers, and the deficit is made up by overpowered solenoids." ( I agree with this one, all of it actually )

"Honestly, I kept wanting and trying to like it, but we got past this learning stage in Visual Pinball around 2004..." ( ughhh, this one I will not comment)

"The kind of '****ing ****' that Farsight could tweak-fix in the physics engine in five seconds if only they could be bloody bothered. " (no comments needed here)
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[Heretic]

aslong as he speaking from a pov thats fine tbh im not known to mince my words either except in the literal sense!

probably had few and was stuck on a train behind a morris band so nerdrage

edit - also i put an hour into propin this morning and since ive been on a pretty long break it kicked my ass. so fook timeshock and the horse it rode in on.

maybe he needs to take a break, but you may have a point pc vs ios.

has the mobile version gotten less love these days or jusst more of the same? if its not gotten worse and hes a long time user he should expect some things.

tho i still say unless his personal account relfects the company he can rage away

 

[Fungi]

If he makes valid points and the public forum he chooses gets FarSight's attention, then flail away.

 

[karl]

Since he is not posting under the Heighway name, I guess it is ok. And for the record, I have nothing against it, personally.

It was not because of what he wrote, I thought about it. (it is not any worse than the opinion others have here on the forum)

He is a part of the industri, though. So I thought it fun to mention since It is not often that you see those kind of harsh words towards others in the same industry (well, almost. Real and digital pinball are at least someway close to the same industry)

Would it still be ok if it was Stern pinball arcade and not Pinball arcade? That would clearly be talking down the competition, wouldn't it?

tho i still say unless his personal account relfects the company he can rage away

Thanks for the input, Heretic. This is exactly what I wanted opinions on

 

[karl]

If he makes valid points and the public forum he chooses gets FarSight's attention, then flail away.

Because Digital and Real pinball is not directly competitive?
or because he is not representativ of the company he works for when using an alias(a well known alias though)?
or is it ok either way?

 

[soundwave106]

He has got some valid points and I agree that all of the things he has a problem with could be better, but why does he take to such extreme words and anger about it?

I took a look at the guy's Twitter feed and it seems to be filled with a bunch of four letter words and general unhinged taking the p*** type anger.

This is too much of social media these days it seems, but Twitter's the worst of the lot. It seems to encourage this sort of behavior. It's part of why Twitter's tanking in the stock market. Practically every analyst says that Twitter needs to control its harassment and trolls (not that these posts are that, but it's reflective of the general anger encased in this platform).

VP is a weird thing. Last I checked, I do think the physics engine is better than TPA. Some VP tables are brilliant. However, some were rather rubbish. And if he wants to flail around that kind of comparison, Visual Pinball's installers (or lack thereof) is in the early 1980s stage of computing or worse.

 

[Kolchak357]

His opinion counts no more than anyone else's to me. Doesn't bother me a bit. We all have gripes about aspects of TPA. More a matter of classless delivery than the actual message. But maybe that's just his Twitter style.
As for VP, I don't do any PC gaming. So until it comes to mobile it isn't an option for me. I'd probably love the VP EM pin selections, but I don't see it coming to my iPad anytime soon. But if people prefer VP, then have at it. It's all about fun, play what's most fun to you.

 

[shutyertrap]

While VP scratched a huge itch back in 2004 for me, my main problem with it was always the inconsistency of table authors. I found 2 or 3 I liked, both visually and physics tuning, but then there'd be a table I wanted that wasn't done by them and I'd hate the experience. I tried it out again a year ago, none of my favorite authors were still doing it, and it made me appreciate Pinball Arcade all the more. Like it or not, there is a consistency to how all the tables play across TPA. That consistency is also the problem since EMs play with the power of modern Sterns, but there is a familiarity going in. And visually there is a 'FarSight style' that carries over table to table. In VP, there might be 4 or 5 versions of the same title, and you have to try them all out before settling on one, and that get's tiring after a short while.

Real world pinball guys are always going to rail on TPA. They always seem to complain about the mobile version too while never mentioning the PC version. Is this because they have physical tables in their house and therefore have no need to play on their computer? Would their complaints be the same with PC as they are with mobile?

 

[Fungi]

Because Digital and Real pinball is not directly competitive?
or because he is not representativ of the company he works for when using an alias(a well known alias though)?
or is it ok either way?

Because he's making the same points we do here, regardless of where he works or who he's representing. I'm ok with him using twitter.

 

[Xanija]

What's the guy's twitter handle?

 

[DanBradford]

I've met him IRL a couple of times. The guy is definitely 'on the spectrum' and a bit unhinged, possibly borderline Tourette's. Not the sort of guy you'd want to get stuck in a lift with. Or a bar with. Or anywhere really.

 

[francis247uk]

Hmm, a bit counter productive surely? Imagine it would have done Heighway Pinball a world of good from a marketing perspective to have their game featured in TPA - no chance now.

Pinballs such a niche hobby generally speaking, especially in the UK, I don't think negativity like that is constructive at all in promoting it.
Sounds like the people who ***** and moan all the time on Facebook.

Farsight have never had a bad word to say about other Pinball games or manufacturers, it would be like Bobby King or Jay posting on their personal Twitter all the problems they have after a game of Full Throttle.

Go back to Visual Pinball if you hate TPA and EBD so much I say.

 

[Heretic]

While VP scratched a huge itch back in 2004 for me, my main problem with it was always the inconsistency of table authors. I found 2 or 3 I liked, both visually and physics tuning, but then there'd be a table I wanted that wasn't done by them and I'd hate the experience.

I still havent seen a table done in vp or at any company for that matter that matched pacdudes stuff in terms of incandest light glow and delay, really hit that sub concious sweet spot for me.

 

[BStarfire]

While VP scratched a huge itch back in 2004 for me, my main problem with it was always the inconsistency of table authors. I found 2 or 3 I liked, both visually and physics tuning, but then there'd be a table I wanted that wasn't done by them and I'd hate the experience. I tried it out again a year ago, none of my favorite authors were still doing it, and it made me appreciate Pinball Arcade all the more. Like it or not, there is a consistency to how all the tables play across TPA. That consistency is also the problem since EMs play with the power of modern Sterns, but there is a familiarity going in. And visually there is a 'FarSight style' that carries over table to table. In VP, there might be 4 or 5 versions of the same title, and you have to try them all out before settling on one, and that get's tiring after a short while.

Real world pinball guys are always going to rail on TPA. They always seem to complain about the mobile version too while never mentioning the PC version. Is this because they have physical tables in their house and therefore have no need to play on their computer? Would their complaints be the same with PC as they are with mobile?

You nailed my exact same experience with VP. It also didn't help that the different versions of tables sometimes had different rules or geometry. And other than a few authors, I was surprised how many rules were wrong and even worse, how some authors deliberately changed the rules for the worse in an effort to "improve" them.

 

[karl]

While VP scratched a huge itch back in 2004 for me, my main problem with it was always the inconsistency of table authors. I found 2 or 3 I liked, both visually and physics tuning, but then there'd be a table I wanted that wasn't done by them and I'd hate the experience. I tried it out again a year ago, none of my favorite authors were still doing it, and it made me appreciate Pinball Arcade all the more. Like it or not, there is a consistency to how all the tables play across TPA. That consistency is also the problem since EMs play with the power of modern Sterns, but there is a familiarity going in. And visually there is a 'FarSight style' that carries over table to table. In VP, there might be 4 or 5 versions of the same title, and you have to try them all out before settling on one, and that get's tiring after a short while.

Real world pinball guys are always going to rail on TPA. They always seem to complain about the mobile version too while never mentioning the PC version. Is this because they have physical tables in their house and therefore have no need to play on their computer? Would their complaints be the same with PC as they are with mobile?

Great post!

 

[karl]

Hmm, a bit counter productive surely? Imagine it would have done Heighway Pinball a world of good from a marketing perspective to have their game featured in TPA - no chance now.

Pinballs such a niche hobby generally speaking, especially in the UK, I don't think negativity like that is constructive at all in promoting it.
Sounds like the people who ***** and moan all the time on Facebook.

Farsight have never had a bad word to say about other Pinball games or manufacturers, it would be like Bobby King or Jay posting on their personal Twitter all the problems they have after a game of Full Throttle.

Go back to Visual Pinball if you hate TPA and EBD so much I say.

Another great post

I agree with those of you that say twitter has become a place to vent out to the world and complain about all and everything for many. I still follow a lot of people on there, because there is still a lot of good stuff among the trash.

PS! My original post was not meant as a cheap shot at Mr. Sanders. I have great respect for his Visual pinball abilities and he is also a welcome breath of fresh air in the pinball design league. Full Throttle has a really unique and cool design, with some shots that feels different from what I am used to, in a good way (some problems also, but no design is perfect)

I agree about what you say francis. It is counter productive. I was a little bit surprised since it came from a pinball designer and wanted to see if I was alone in feeling just that.

 

[Heretic]

I tend to go either very zen with a table or cry havoc and let loose the crazy. depends on the table design.

also i consider most designers mad as all hell but python angelo is my hero

 

[karl]

I tend to go either very zen with a table or cry havoc and let loose the crazy. depends on the table design.

also i consider most designers mad as all hell but python angelo is my hero

The only sane man to set foot in the pinball industry You should play Bride of Pinbot 2.0 They have a mode in there that is a homage to Python. Planet Pythonia. That's the name Python told friends he was going to before he passed away, I believe. Pretty cool gesture to put that in there.

 

[shutyertrap]

I still havent seen a table done in vp or at any company for that matter that matched pacdudes stuff in terms of incandest light glow and delay, really hit that sub concious sweet spot for me.

That was my boy! Never hesitated to download anything he authored. Never took shortcuts, always tried to push the software and innovate. I even enjoyed some of his custom Roms, especially for Centaur. Shame all his tables are VP 8. Some work in 9, to varying degrees.

 

[wolfson]

I am happy with TPA,ZEN,PRO PINBALL and ZACCARIA,actually I`m over the moon with my 176 tables.what a foul mouth,maybe this dipstick can put his head were the sun don`t shine !!!!