Medieval Madness: real vs. TPA vs. Zen

[ScotchYeti]

As I haven't played MM in real life, which implementation is closer to the actual table?

E.g. in TPA if the ball doesn't make it up the peasant ramp it will drain in the center. Not so in Zen! There, the Dragon/Damsel ramp is more dangerous and harder to make while in TPA the ball has no problem going up. I also find the Trolls much more dangerous in TPA. There is hardly a drain from them in Zen. The castle is about equal.

MM was already my favourite in the old Williams Hall of Fame. The TPA version was a good improvement but the Zen version - wow. The Arcade and tournament modes are both super awesome, absolutely thrilling. Love it!

 

[EldarOfSuburbia]

Obviously two different physical tables will behave differently, even NIB standing side by side!

In my experience though, a weak left ramp tends to be more dangerous than a weak right ramp, and both the castle and trolls are bouncy death traps.

Neither FX3 nor TPA get the castle shots right. In FX3 the sweet spot for castle shots is way too high on the flipper, and in TPA it's almost impossible to hit the castle from a running shot.

The single biggest difference though is the castle/lock kickout in FX3, which does not give a safe and easy bounce pass to the left flipper to repeat the lock shot. Also the FX3 lock shot, and Catapult, are both tighter.

All this adds up to FX3 being the more difficult version (even in Classic, I've not tried Tournament yet) but it's still video pinball and thus still a degree or more easier than the real thing.

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[MBeeching]

FX3's physics feels more accurate, though TPA's has superior lighting effects and clunky castle animations.
Dare I say the FX3 version almost looks too slick visually? Most of these table objects are supposed to be kinda clunky by design.

Neither versions has nailed the pop up trolls, they're supposed to be on springs with a little give when you hit them. Both feel like unforgiving solid targets when a real pinball would collide and push them slightly aside.

 

[Silverball67]

It´s been a Long time since I played MM in real life. But I would say, that the Trolls are the biggest difference. On a real table, the trolls were - as ScothYeti said - Death traps. Far easier to handle on TPA and ZEN. Similar the Castle shots. But I got the Impression, that in tournament mode, Zen is closest to original physics.

 

[Dok5555555]

I mentioned this before but never got an answer. In TPA they give a extra ball after 28 Million (was a replay in PHOF), but in FX3 they don't. Which is more accurate? I also have yet to see the DMD animation for the replay when the queen knights you or something in FX3.

 

[EldarOfSuburbia]

I mentioned this before but never got an answer. In TPA they give a extra ball after 28 Million (was a replay in PHOF), but in FX3 they don't. Which is more accurate? I also have yet to see the DMD animation for the replay when the queen knights you or something in FX3.

Neither is "more accurate". It's an operator decision. In the real world you'd probably get a replay (where it's legal); otherwise it's up to the operator what rewards are given, if any, for the replay score(s).

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[ScotchYeti]

Ah, I already wondered where the extra ball was.

Regarding the Catapult lock in FX3: looks like Zen has turned the shot into their standard "shoot from the tip of the flipper". Hitting it from a rolling ball is well-nigh impossible.

 

[EldarOfSuburbia]

Ah, I already wondered where the extra ball was.

Regarding the Catapult lock in FX3: looks like Zen has turned the shot into their standard "shoot from the tip of the flipper". Hitting it from a rolling ball is well-nigh impossible.

The Catapult is a tip-of-the flipper shot, and tricky to pull off with a moving ball, on a real MM too. FX3's flipper physics are problematic on shots up the middle (the same as TPA to some extent). Wonder if there's something to that....

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[ZREXMike2]

can't get the orange lights on the rollover lanes to show up nice on zen like you can on tpa, plus the ball speed coming down is higher on zen. the dragon toy moving around on zen is a distraction.

 

[shutyertrap]

The peasant ramp in FX3 has the proper ball diverter so that it won't center drain. At first TPA did not have it at all (they thought it was a mod), and then they added an invisible wall to make it happen without physically adding the part to the table. Not sure if they ever did model that piece in the end or not.

I personally think the lighting is better in FX3 for 2 reasons; the first is that there is no artificial spot light in the center of the play field like in TPA (an overhead light?), the second is that the lighting in FX3 is spherical rather than being on a single plain. This allows the flashing lights to affect multiple surfaces rather than having to artificially be painted in. It also allows for the ball to be truly affected by whatever light it is near. Obviously the pro in favor of TPA is being able to set the room lighting (sorry, but their bulb brightness was a joke in terms of getting a proper glow) to dark, and I still hold out hope that Zen will eventually implement this.

And for god's sake, if the dragon bothers anyone, push the button to turn it all off in that moment!

 

[Narc0lep5y]

i went out to Pinball gallery at lunch today and played real pinball for the first time in a really long time.

Anyway, they have a MM remake and I probably played it the most in the hour or so i was there.

My thoughts on MM actual vs Digital

1) damn real pinball is way harder than virtual
2) i need this machine for the color dmd alone.
3) Shot wise, i could hit the castle and trolls all day but I rarely hit the damsel and peasant ramps. I'll agree with SYT's thought that the catapult is near impossible too.
4) without the tactile responses and lights i don't know how much closer you could get to recreating this digitally. I'll know more when my cab is finished i guess.

 

[Pete]

I havnt jumped onto the zen thing just yet but definitly will soon just been busy with things. I know you guys are talking about physics and such but ive been wondering does Zen have table instructions and how well do they compair with Farsights instructions. I know instuctions are boring most people probably ignore them, but those instructions and testing them out digitally have really helped me play better in real life tornaments and I think Farsight really did an amazing job on them.

 

[Narc0lep5y]

Farsight/TPA instructions are unquestionably better. Zen doesn't even come close.

 

[shutyertrap]

Yeah, Zen tells you only slightly more than what an instruction card would. FarSight broke down virtually every secret the game might have.

 

[ZREXMike2]

The peasant ramp in FX3 has the proper ball diverter so that it won't center drain. At first TPA did not have it at all (they thought it was a mod), and then they added an invisible wall to make it happen without physically adding the part to the table. Not sure if they ever did model that piece in the end or not.

I personally think the lighting is better in FX3 for 2 reasons; the first is that there is no artificial spot light in the center of the play field like in TPA (an overhead light?), the second is that the lighting in FX3 is spherical rather than being on a single plain. This allows the flashing lights to affect multiple surfaces rather than having to artificially be painted in. It also allows for the ball to be truly affected by whatever light it is near. Obviously the pro in favor of TPA is being able to set the room lighting (sorry, but their bulb brightness was a joke in terms of getting a proper glow) to dark, and I still hold out hope that Zen will eventually implement this.

And for god's sake, if the dragon bothers anyone, push the button to turn it all off in that moment!

Sry, did not know you could turn that off, will try to find out how to do that, thanx 4 yr input.

 

[shutyertrap]

If you are using a controller, it’s the X button for Xbox, circle ️ for PlayStation

 

[Badfinger]

If picking to buy just one, FX3 on rep alone, sorry but FS can kinda drop off now for all I care, obviously they don't think their own product is worth much effort.

I've played MM at PBHF and both remakes are great fun.

 

[yespage]

If picking to buy just one, FX3 on rep alone, sorry but FS can kinda drop off now for all I care, obviously they don't think their own product is worth much effort.

I've played MM at PBHF and both remakes are great fun.

You can't buy the TPA version anymore. Also, they released the table how many years ago?

 

[ZREXMike2]

If you are using a controller, it’s the X button for Xbox, circle ️ for PlayStation

thanx trap, you are very helpful, dude.

 

[Striker]

MM remake is harder than the original. The slingshots on the remake feel like they are set on hair-trigger. Expect to lose a lot of balls to the outlines. The color DMD is pretty, though.

To me, Zen seems a bit closer in feel to the original than TPA.