Minimalist Gotltieb EM list

[Kolchak357]

You could get an idea by checking the production numbers. The most popular and often best EMs sold more units. You can also check current resale values. The better EM pins often sell for more $, although how rare or common a pin is can also dictate price.
Of course the best thing to do is to head out to an arcade (if you can find one) or a pin show (again, if you can find one) and play a bunch of EMs. The rules are usually easy to understand and you can get a good feel for a pin pretty quickly. Better to know first hand if you like it, rather than take the word of someone else.

 

[k88dad]

Big Brave gives a nice challenge by partially hiding the drop targets behind the Vari-target.
Spirit of 76 is too important to pinball history to be left out.
Royal Flush and Joker Poker are both great takes on the card theme. Most units of Joker Poker were SS, since it was right on the tail end of the EM era. Oddly, Royal Flush has the better gameplay, by including the jokers.
Jet Spin has both a Vari-target and a long shot to a Roto-target at the very top of the playfield.

My non-Gottlieb pick would be Aztec with great layout and gameplay.

 

[Snorzel]

Gottlieb had so many great EMs its hard to choose they were truly the pinball kings in those days.

If I had to pick just 1 it would be Centigrade 37. The art the gameplay the shots its all there.

I would not be disappointed one bit if we got any of the others you guys suggested.
Fast Draw, Royal Flush, Atlantis and Surfer make my top 5.

The best Gottliebs I have played are Sky Jump, Ship Mates, Top Card, Spirit of 76', Jungle Queen and Jacks Open. I want something I have never played in TPA but would love any of these too. I really want Ace High again now

 

[Snorzel]

1967 King of Diamonds

Main problem of KOD is the lack of reset once you got the cards

KOD Retro which has a ROM but Farsight probably doesn't have the emu
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHmqNRCjHDM

This KOD retro looks amazing. You can see in this video that the targets do reset when complete on the updated version
http://youtu.be/iItJaMj2NWk
Farsight should definitely look into this one. Any future releases to look out for from Retro Pinball? I didnt find anything

 

[BStarfire]

I'll have to try Buccaneer next week in Vegas at the PHOF. I don't remember it last time I was there, might have missed it - but it's on their listing of games.

 

[BStarfire]

Loving everyone's lists! I enjoy Gottlieb EM’s - both from the 70’s, but especially the early to mid-60’s. However, looking at the other lists it seems not too many people have much from 1966 or earlier. This makes my #1 choice of Slick Chick either unlikely or unfair – and no reason to press my favorite if it is such a limited audience.

So based on a combination of popularity, production numbers (both replay, 2 and 4 player variants, etc.), and the EM games we already have in TPA, here is a potential minimal list of various combinations to give us the greatest variety of Gottlieb EM goodness, revised to try to be as inclusive as possible.

One Gottlieb EM: If only one more Gottlieb EM were done – Melody (1967) – don’t be fooled by the low production number as it’s the add-a-ball version of Sing Along, which had a greater number. Also, production numbers in the 60’s must be compared as a percentage of total machines produced, as pinball volume increased dramatically in the 70’s. Melody combines multiple concepts from the best of Gottlieb 60’s pinball playfields, and the add-a-ball rules make sense and are perfect for a TPA game. Roll-overs, targets, the kick-out holes. This game comes closest to representing 60’s Gottliebs and while I’ve always had the nostalgic feeling for Kings and Queens, Crosstown, Slick Chick, etc. – Melody is probably a better player. I’ll have to let Melody represent all that I like in 60’s Gottliebs and forego any realistic expectation of getting the others. But it’s a fine game, so that’s OK.

Two Gottlieb EM’s: If TPA only ever gets two more Gottlieb EM’s – Melody for one of them and Centigrade 37 for the other. C37 has the four in-lanes used on many late EM’s, the oft-used bagatelle lanes on the right, and is a great player. I really like Atlantis, but only if it were in the context of lots of other Gottlieb’s (trying to maximize variety because we won’t get many EM’s). We have Big Shot and El Dorado – lots of drop targets, so we should defer to games that offer some greater variety (making Royal Flush and Atlantis candidates if more EM’s were made). I suppose one could argue that the next GTB EM should be C37, and then Melody.

C37 may not be everyone’s first choice, but hopefully in everyone’s top five or so, and provides good play variety to the EM’s we already have and represents many aspects of the best of Gottlieb 70’s pinball. So C37 might be the best choice for the next Gottlieb EM, though I think a C37/Melody would be perfect – and be a good sample of GTB EM’s even if we never got another one.

After that, the next wave of games that make the most sense based on variety and popularity would be some combination of: Surf Champ, Fast Draw, Royal Flush. After that, maybe Atlantis or Spirit of 76 could be worked in (or Buccaneer). I still have my personal preferences, but I think that a better concensus on what the next Gottlieb EM's should be (and after that) might be more likely to produce a TPA EM sooner rather than later.

Now pushing the campaign for C37/Melody.

 

[Kolchak357]

Slick Chick and Sing Along/Melody are both highly regarded pins. Wouldn't shock me one bit if they did well if a poll was held. They are definitely classics with great gameplay. Didn't hit my top 5, but I wouldn't mind either one of them making it into TPA. Don't let us change your mind. Stick to your favorites and tell us why you love them. That's what threads like this are for.

 

[Zorgwon]

Any future releases to look out for from Retro Pinball? I didnt find anything

It seems that they are no longer active. The link leads to nowhere. Maybe they didn't sell that many or it was just a fun project.

 

[Snorzel]

Its too bad Rteo Pinball seems gone. I would love to have a KOD.

BStarfire, liked your original list too, but yeah Melody looks like a solid choice. Those sequential kickout holes look cool. Any of the 60's pins you listed would be a welcome TPA addition for me

 

[Zorgwon]

BStarfire, liked your original list too, but yeah Melody looks like a solid choice.

The add-a-ball versions often had added features for longer play. Not having replays you got a lot of EBs and games lasted longer. Diamond Jack probably resets the cards after completion.

 

[BStarfire]

Not really changing my mind...just putting in context to what EM's we already have. If starting from scratch, I would heavily advocate Slick Chick over Central Park. I would also take Atlantis over Big Shot (but BS still good). So given what we have so far, if I could only keep those EM's plus two more, then I would go with C37 and Melody, followed by Surf Champ, Fast Draw, and Royal Flush. If we got all those, then I'd push for Slick Chick and Atlantis.

 

[BStarfire]

Made another jaunt to the PHOF (much easier now that I live in Vegas - should update my profile) and gave Buccaneer a try. I was pretty impressed with it. I like the spinner shot effect being more than just a score based on number of spins. The other good thing is that you can hit the upper rollovers on either side of the '1' with a proper shot through the spinner, and you can make an orbit shot from 8 to 9 or vice versa (except the table leaned a bit right, making the 9 to 8 shot impossible). All in all, pretty fun rollover game, and I like rollover games, especially as a change of pace to drop targets. Ship Ahoy looks like the better version, though, as the add-a-ball rules for that make sense and is balanced. Reading up on Buccaneer/Ship Ahoy, it seems that there is a setting for how often the spinner is lit to spot a number. Probably better to have it lit fewer times, but I'm not sure. Good option for the pro-table...

Pack 1: C37 / Melody
Pack 2: Quick Draw / Surf Champ
Pack 3: Ship Ahoy / Royal Flush
Pack 4: Atlantis / Spirit of 76
Pack 5: Slick Chick / Joker Poker

Are the solid state versions of Royal Flush / Joker Poker much different from the EM'S? El Dorado is pretty different, but it seems that Royal Flush Deluxe is exactly the same except for all scores being 10x the old values. Joker Poker looks the same too. Since those are System 80A and System 1 which already have games in TPA, maybe it's easier to go that route. You could swap Joker Poker and Royal Flush - I really enjoyed the former but some say RF is the deeper game - I don't know. In any event, the above combinations are how I would try to balance and prioritize the diversity of fun Gottlieb EM's in the fewest number of table packs.

 

[Snorzel]

Very cool ^ I would love to visit the phof. Nice picks, though realisticaly I think we will get 1 EM pack a season if we are lucky from here on out. I bet it will always be a 2 pack with 1 rehash,(Jive Time, Ace High, Sorcerer, maybe Play Boy or another El Dorado reskin) and 1 new table. I also think it needs to be a somewhat concise choice by the fans as to which one like with Fireball.

BStarfire, you only hope for more Gottlieb EMs or are there any others you would like?

 

[wolfson]

they might surprise us !!! don`t forget we`re getting 8-9 EMs from Zaccaria !!!very soon !!!I`d take take every table that`s been mentioned above.

 

[BStarfire]

I'm just not as familiar with non-Gottlieb EM's as much. Part of it is seemingly only having Gottlieb EM's available (along with Bally, et al solid states) in the late 70's, early 80's, and also years later only knowing collectors who defer to the Gottlieb EM's. In my oversimplified view, it seems like Gottlieb had the best EM's, Bally had the best in the early SS years, and then Williams. Granted, I don't have enough knowledge about Zacc, Chicago Coin, and some of the others. For the EM's, Gottlieb's seemed to always have subtle aspects that you didn't appreciate until you played it a while, or saw a master play it. Several of the other company EM's were pretty much what you see is what you get. Of course, maybe I just haven't played the right non-Gottlieb games.

We're in Season 5 and have a total of four EM's, so yeah, lists of favorites or polls are not necessarily the way to go. A poll may indicate a winning table, but if less than 50% of the participants, may not even fall in the top 5 of the others. When talking about such a small number (one table), a poll/vote should be handled like majority (not plurarily) votes, where after the initial vote, the table with the lowest total is discarded and then the vote held again. Otherwise, you have incentive to not even vote for your favorite if you don't think it can win and you want to have a say among the top contenders. Discarding lowest total after each round achieves the best balance of everyone's preference. That's too much trouble. But I digress...

Ace High is not my favorite 50's EM, but I would certainly take it (I still like it). I agree that the two pack will probably include a redone older table, so I suspect a reasonable request for Farsight would be Ace High paired up with a later 70's EM, and I was thinking Centigrade 37 provides the best counterpoint as far as playstyle to what we already have, represents a lot of signature elements of Gottlieb 70's tables, is fun, and hopefully in most EM fan's top five (or at least top ten), and it might have more appeal with non EM fans.

So maybe C37 / Ace High is the most reasonable expectation.

I wonder how the sales are for Fireball/El Dorado. A lot of people complain about the older tables, but perhaps they're just more vocal. I lot of people request them, also. Sales tell the real story, good or bad. I may need to order multiple copies.

 

[Snorzel]

Looking at this poll:
http://digitalpinballfans.com/showt...ll-Series-1-Electro-Mechanical-(Closed)/page8

The top 5 back then where:
Wizard
Spirit of 76
C37
Atlantis
Royal Flush

Seems Wizard would be out due to license, so based on these numbers Spirit of 76. Out of the 4 non licensed, based solely on layout, C37 is the most different from what is already in game I think.

 

[Zorgwon]

C37 would be a good choice indeed despite not having it on my list.

What is surprising about the poll is the absense af El Dorado and Fireball. Fireball was always a strong candidate but I don't recall El Dorado being mentioned. Maybe the presence of EDCOG made it too unlikely.

 

[BStarfire]

Having spent hours upon hours the past few days hands-on with some classic EM's and trying and thinking long and hard about the best ones to represent the Gottlieb EM's, I came to these conclusions.

Kings and Queens, for me, plays much better and has more satisfying shots than Melody/Sing Along. I had forgotten the difference until I got some real K&Q action. Plus, K&Q is an iconic machinel in the lore of pinball, so no reason to leave it out. I had thought that Melody might be better to represent several playfields from the times, but forget it, Kings and Queens is the classic and plays great.

So assuming Ace High / C37 for one pack, another (and maybe that's all we ever get) needs some classics that are also representative of different styles.
A second pack would then be Kings and Queens, and another classic 70's game - either Abra Cadabra or Fast Draw - both have two banks of five targets and somewhat unique rules/layout and are a great complement to each other, share some similarities, but which one is the best representative? I put tons of quarters through Abra Cadabra and loved it, but Fast Draw is great, too. Both are from 1975. I personally would probably go Abra C, but have no objection to Fast Draw, and think more people might prefer it. So I'll go with Fast Draw, but love them both.

So with these two packs, four tables (Ace High/C37 and Kings and Queens/Fast Draw), combined with the Gottliebs we already have, gives us:

1958 Ace High
1965 Kings and Queens
1966 Central Park
1973 Big Shot
1975 Fast Draw
1975 El Dorado
1977 Centigrade 37

One from the 50's, two from the sixties, and four from the seventies. Pretty compact and hopefully, representative list. If we're lucky enough to get these, then tons of possibilities open up, but the above list seems, as was my goal, the most minimal list of representative Gottlieb classics and we get there with two EM packs.

 

[Snorzel]

Having spent hours upon hours the past few days hands-on with some classic EM's and trying and thinking long and hard about the best ones to represent the Gottlieb EM's, I came to these conclusions.

Kings and Queens, for me, plays much better and has more satisfying shots than Melody/Sing Along. I had forgotten the difference until I got some real K&Q action. Plus, K&Q is an iconic machinel in the lore of pinball, so no reason to leave it out. I had thought that Melody might be better to represent several playfields from the times, but forget it, Kings and Queens is the classic and plays great.

So assuming Ace High / C37 for one pack, another (and maybe that's all we ever get) needs some classics that are also representative of different styles.
A second pack would then be Kings and Queens, and another classic 70's game - either Abra Cadabra or Fast Draw - both have two banks of five targets and somewhat unique rules/layout and are a great complement to each other, share some similarities, but which one is the best representative? I put tons of quarters through Abra Cadabra and loved it, but Fast Draw is great, too. Both are from 1975. I personally would probably go Abra C, but have no objection to Fast Draw, and think more people might prefer it. So I'll go with Fast Draw, but love them both.

So with these two packs, four tables (Ace High/C37 and Kings and Queens/Fast Draw), combined with the Gottliebs we already have, gives us:

1958 Ace High
1965 Kings and Queens
1966 Central Park
1973 Big Shot
1975 Fast Draw
1975 El Dorado
1977 Centigrade 37

One from the 50's, two from the sixties, and four from the seventies. Pretty compact and hopefully, representative list. If we're lucky enough to get these, then tons of possibilities open up, but the above list seems, as was my goal, the most minimal list of representative Gottlieb classics and we get there with two EM packs.

I like it. So we could get season 7 Fast Draw and Jive Time. Season 8 Kings and Queens with Target Alpha or something. I hope it happens.

 

[Zorgwon]

There's also the problem of quality and simulation. Until now none of the EMs plays like the real thing. Zipper Flippers flip best when you have the ball in the middle and fantastic backhands aren't easy to play. The real Central Park is slow and requires luck and some skill to get the ball in the upper part of the playfield.

For the 2 inch flipper pinball tables Future Pinball is a way to experience the feeling. The inaccuracy of the physics fits with the inaccuracy of the real tables.